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Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 08/12/2010 06:48:50 PM
No really, this is a serious debate. I'm a bit disappointed that you've taken this down into the gutter from the beginning, unless you're just starting some banter between us.


No, seriously, I really thought this was a joke. So I was preparing for some archnemesising.

...

Awkward :tinfoilhat:.

I personally think that you, like many posters, have serious oversights regarding the function of the test. Serenity is not about looking like a cold mask and not spreading panic. Its a rather idiotic analogy you made, as were many of your other examples. The purpose of the serenity exercise is to help her maintain inner calm which you would know is essential to mastering saidar if you'd paid attention to the series. As I pointed out Graendal almost lost saidar due to panic and that is what needs to be prevented in a crisis. It's about being surrounded at dumai wells and channeling with calm and not becoming hysterical and running all over the place, and losing the ability to hold the power.


You need look no further than the Seanchan attack on the White Tower to see that the test does not do what you think it does. I needn't remind you that the Captain-General of the Green Ajah - who passed the test - was flailing around like a headless chicken. The most competent woman there was Egwene, and she hasn't passed the test.

As for the Taim comment, its untrue and stupid. Sometimes a greater goal is present that supercedes an indiviual. Anyone of any important rank whose ever commanded people will tell you that.


And what greater goal is there in ignoring your responsibilities or human suffering in order to obey the voices in your head?

The purpose of the test is to prove that a woman can function under stress. The series has provided tons of examples where this is essential in an aes sedai. And anyway, you miss the point just like Nynaeve did. Its not a test to see what you would do in a situation! Its a test for you to weave while under stress. Your judgment is a non-issue, but your skills with saidar certainly are. Finding a deeper meaning in this test is like finding a deeper meaning in a driving test. They just want to see you drive the car. Don't bitch and whine if you fail because you object to the philosophy of the test and take the car for a wild spin, claiming that you were rushing to help an injured dog :rolleyes: just do the damn test like they want. When you have the shawl you can run off and help children, or shield men, or become a darkfriend. Whatever...


Again, this notion fails because of the whole memory erasing. A more accurate analogy would be, say, being the only one capable of saving the city if you arrive on the other side of town within the next five minutes. But a voice in your head keeps saying "don't pass the speed limit, come to a complete stop at that corner, be steadfast." The tests do the opposite of what you claim. It claims women who are willing to ignore the greater goal to fulfill their selfish ambitions.

Need I remind you in one of Egwene's Acceptance tests, she was given the choice between keeping the Dragon Reborn from being turned to the Shadow, or jumping through the phantom arches. So what is this greater goal that warrants giving the saviour of the world to Shai'tan?
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
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Nynaeve's stupidity and the test for Aes Sedai Sidious - 07/12/2010 08:27:05 PM 4139 Views
Just like all women. Great Lord of Chaos - 07/12/2010 09:15:12 PM 1097 Views
Way to totally misunderstand the chapter Icarium - 07/12/2010 09:39:08 PM 1563 Views
I second this redhand - 07/12/2010 10:10:24 PM 1267 Views
your bold is stuck. *NM* LadyLorraine - 07/12/2010 10:21:22 PM 543 Views
He BOLDLY seconded it... *NM* HyogaRott - 08/12/2010 03:04:33 PM 513 Views
which is quite excellent. I was just leting him know *NM* LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 03:28:24 PM 417 Views
I think that statement says it all. LadyLorraine - 07/12/2010 10:19:50 PM 1314 Views
Thanks. That's exactly what I think. ˥ɐ ʎpu∀ɹ - 08/12/2010 08:29:28 AM 1179 Views
+1, well said *NM* Lord Haart - 08/12/2010 11:19:29 AM 477 Views
Agrees *NM* Onarishma - 09/12/2010 03:27:53 PM 873 Views
Yes, the OP totally whiffed here. Nyn couldn't remember.. The Angry Druid - 11/12/2010 01:50:11 AM 1092 Views
On the whole, the test is innappropriate IMO DomA - 07/12/2010 09:40:08 PM 1392 Views
I agree with this entirely *NM* LadyLorraine - 07/12/2010 10:07:52 PM 474 Views
very well said *NM* darius_sedai - 07/12/2010 10:23:06 PM 425 Views
It's kind of a chicken and egg thing BlackAdder - 07/12/2010 11:13:19 PM 1056 Views
Re: It's kind of a chicken and egg thing DomA - 08/12/2010 12:37:20 AM 1338 Views
nice post Sidious - 08/12/2010 09:20:02 AM 1159 Views
Isn't it implied guttering flame - 08/12/2010 02:16:58 PM 929 Views
no they were students together darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 05:33:17 PM 878 Views
No, Lanfear was older than Lews guttering flame - 08/12/2010 07:21:45 PM 1094 Views
Where on earth did you get that from? darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 08:41:16 PM 1022 Views
Re: Where on earth did you get that from? DomA - 09/12/2010 10:27:20 AM 1044 Views
Re: Where on earth did you get that from? Sidious - 09/12/2010 03:56:32 PM 1113 Views
I always got the impression that they were together for quiet some time darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:34:23 PM 1061 Views
Re: I always got the impression that they were together for quiet some time moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:43:40 PM 1038 Views
I think skill with Saidar is easy enough to judge as it's a simple matter to see the skill darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 05:37:27 PM 965 Views
I think the greens should have been on Nynaeve's side as well LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 06:18:16 PM 1081 Views
Problem is they are Aes Sedai and thus more likley to be political rather than rational! *NM* darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 08:52:00 PM 775 Views
too f'n true *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 12:17:58 AM 485 Views
Re: nice post DomA - 09/12/2010 01:23:50 PM 1154 Views
On the matter of strength guttering flame - 09/12/2010 08:51:36 PM 979 Views
Re: On the matter of strength Timthetrolloc - 10/12/2010 10:38:42 AM 981 Views
Strength was "prized" in the AoL ... but lack of strength was not a negative darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 01:41:08 AM 955 Views
The test is stupid and it was about time someone pointed it out Zeratul - 07/12/2010 10:29:38 PM 995 Views
Channeling under duress IS necessary for ALL Aes Sedai Urbannen - 05/01/2011 12:04:53 AM 1090 Views
Well BlackAdder - 07/12/2010 11:03:38 PM 1025 Views
Yes. How dare she not conform with every other fucking mindless stupid WT Aes Sedai *NM* Variant - 07/12/2010 11:36:52 PM 618 Views
Status is not an end in itself. *NM* Chas - 07/12/2010 11:52:37 PM 493 Views
They're not really stupid... DomA - 08/12/2010 01:00:20 AM 1051 Views
Not saying they are. It's just that most AS that we've come across Chas - 08/12/2010 02:20:05 AM 760 Views
They're constantly outsmarted by a teenage girl that has spent most of her life in a damn farm. Variant - 08/12/2010 10:32:50 AM 1040 Views
yeah because that's so realistic Sidious - 08/12/2010 12:17:29 PM 989 Views
Egwene had everything handed to her on a silver platter. Variant - 08/12/2010 11:50:17 PM 968 Views
Bah... DomA - 09/12/2010 10:56:24 AM 1082 Views
Nope, the Sitters were always stupid Zeratul - 09/12/2010 12:37:05 PM 1020 Views
I did not say all Aes Sedai are stupid, I said all WT Aes Sedai are stupid. Variant - 10/12/2010 09:19:52 AM 1010 Views
cause being rural automatically makes you dumb?..... *NM* Onarishma - 09/12/2010 05:34:11 PM 559 Views
It makes you uneducated moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:46:49 PM 931 Views
You are not only wrong in your call, Fanatic-Templar - 08/12/2010 04:39:44 AM 1253 Views
Re: You are not only wrong in your call, Sidious - 08/12/2010 09:13:37 AM 1281 Views
if that is the purpose of the test LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 01:34:45 PM 985 Views
minor disagreement darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 05:27:51 PM 1051 Views
Yes, but you can be not-panicked and not calm of body LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 06:38:56 PM 873 Views
not really the same thing as what the AS are getting at though darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 09:02:05 PM 1529 Views
that's retarded, imo LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 12:21:27 AM 1014 Views
About Elaida... Zeratul - 09/12/2010 12:29:21 PM 980 Views
...no wonder the Aes Sedai are floundering LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 01:43:42 PM 785 Views
Oh it's totally stupid! darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:37:14 PM 1030 Views
No I know why she took the job. I just don't understand why she got it LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:52:34 PM 975 Views
I think Elaida just smarmed up at the right time, Morgase was very young then darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:52:29 PM 1017 Views
hmm. curse smarming, then *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 07:47:26 PM 421 Views
As I recall... Fanatic-Templar - 10/12/2010 05:18:25 AM 1001 Views
Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Fanatic-Templar - 08/12/2010 06:48:50 PM 1029 Views
I think it has already been established that the purpose of the test is to ensure that Chas - 08/12/2010 09:59:18 PM 782 Views
Yeah, but how does that work? Fanatic-Templar - 08/12/2010 10:24:35 PM 936 Views
Somewhere in the sub-conscious they know what they're doing is important to them. Chas - 09/12/2010 12:20:47 AM 1045 Views
Even so, it wouldn't work. Fanatic-Templar - 09/12/2010 03:32:55 AM 967 Views
I think if this thread has established anything it's that the test is severely flawed. *NM* Chas - 09/12/2010 09:24:48 PM 464 Views
Another headless chicken example. Chas - 09/12/2010 12:30:02 AM 947 Views
the headless chicken is just such a lovely metaphor for panic *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:48:11 AM 430 Views
Re: Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Sidious - 09/12/2010 12:07:15 PM 1040 Views
Re: Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Fanatic-Templar - 10/12/2010 05:32:27 AM 1099 Views
The main difference guttering flame - 10/12/2010 05:50:43 AM 963 Views
I'm not sure I agree. Skeeve the Great - 08/12/2010 12:17:12 PM 1047 Views
You seem to have no grasp of the difference between "politic" and "right" Cannoli - 09/12/2010 02:59:50 AM 1091 Views
I hate it when I love you just a little *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:46:57 AM 457 Views
Re: You seem to have no grasp of the difference between "politic" and "right" Sidious - 09/12/2010 09:26:21 AM 1006 Views
That's not the dilema Cannoli - 09/12/2010 05:23:19 PM 1185 Views
One of those few times where I completely agree with Cannoli. Give over Sidious. You're wrong. fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:55:20 PM 990 Views
Bah! As if an opinion on the test's validity can be wrong *NM* Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:39:14 AM 1108 Views
That's not what it's really about guttering flame - 10/12/2010 05:44:12 AM 936 Views
The paralells are not obvious to me... Cannoli - 15/12/2010 11:42:51 AM 1039 Views
More like guttering flame - 15/12/2010 01:26:40 PM 944 Views
This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 03:46:31 AM 954 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. Sidious - 09/12/2010 09:40:09 AM 1038 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 02:04:02 PM 1340 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. DomA - 09/12/2010 11:26:40 AM 1066 Views
Agreed... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 01:54:09 PM 974 Views
One of those few times where I completely agree with fionwe1987. Give over Sidious. You're wrong. Cannoli - 10/12/2010 03:53:25 PM 1054 Views
no, she did not disagree. slight difference LadyLorraine - 10/12/2010 05:53:54 PM 906 Views
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