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Re: But that has always been the case. I am astounded that it isn't recognized more often... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 09/02/2011 07:47:14 AM

If Rand chose to kill himself, the world dies.

What if Moiraine chose to kill herself in the Two Rivers? Emond's Field is overrun, and Rand dies, so based on your logic, the world dies.

If Rand chose to return to the Two Rivers and refuse his destiny, the world dies.

And it does so if Perrin chooses not to heed the tugging he felt from Rand. Rand becomes a White Tower captive, and the world probably dies.

Rand is the be all and end all of this series. That's why I said all along that everyone who goes on about him getting a big head, or becoming authoritarian or wanting people to understand the gravity of his mission are missing the boat.

So Rand missed the boat too? Because he himself states that Cadsuane was right in what she tried to do.

Had he continued on, he would either have destroyed the Borderland army, or they'd have successfully killed him. Either case would have seen massive repercussions on the fight against the Shadow.

Rand is what matters. He is all that matters.

Nope. He's central to the fight, but without his support base, he's defeated. Min's viewing is very precise on that.

If Egwene never arrived, and the White Tower vanished in a puff of smoke, it wouldn't matter.

It would, based on Min's viewing. Practically, with no White Tower and formal union of female channelers, the Light would probably be defeated. With no Aes Sedai at all, Rand wouldn't be found and protected initially, nor would he later have a legion of competent women acting as his diplomats and healers and as a part of his army. With no Tower, Nynaeve never becomes conscious of her powers and thus there is no cleansing of Saidin. The repercussions of that not happening are itself staggering.

RAND matters. The land is one with the Dragon. Not with the Amyrlin, or the Wolf King, or the Prince of Foxes or anyone else.

But the Dragon needs them. Various members of his innermost clique have been shown to be crucial to his very survival as well as his success. Many of those show more loyalty to Egwene than to him, and in opposition to each others plans may yet be central to saving the world.

It is all about Rand. It always has been.

In some other series, maybe. Rand himself has stated otherwise.
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Rand is the Great Serpent entyti - 08/02/2011 04:21:32 AM 1926 Views
Yeah, that seems logical, funny to see rand bite himself in the ass :p *NM* Kieran - 08/02/2011 06:31:44 AM 574 Views
I want to reply and say that's not exactly how I picture it, but I don't want to be dirty. *NM* Deadsy - 08/02/2011 06:50:17 AM 616 Views
there once was a man from nantucket? *NM* nigelgoboom - 08/02/2011 07:18:47 AM 540 Views
Bwah ha ha! Dirty minds think alike! *NM* Evil_Monkey - 08/02/2011 03:41:30 PM 520 Views
That actually seems cosmically plausible - but I really hope this is not the case RugbyPlayingAshaman - 08/02/2011 03:27:29 PM 1264 Views
But that has always been the case. I am astounded that it isn't recognized more often... Shannow - 08/02/2011 03:58:24 PM 1143 Views
This. There's a reason one of his archetypes is the Fisher King. *NM* Ghavrel - 08/02/2011 07:00:05 PM 585 Views
The issue is that the Fisher King story is about the Land, not the People RugbyPlayingAshaman - 08/02/2011 08:02:24 PM 1062 Views
A good example Kieran - 08/02/2011 08:27:44 PM 1087 Views
None of this is contradicted by what I have posited entyti - 08/02/2011 09:16:48 PM 1017 Views
But the chess analogy is what I'm seeing - the Dragon is necessary in degree not in total. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 09/02/2011 02:42:15 PM 1126 Views
Yes, those are the rules in chess... entyti - 10/02/2011 05:34:25 AM 1034 Views
The Fisher King is not a messianic myth. Ghavrel - 08/02/2011 10:07:44 PM 1106 Views
Fisher King title and legends are connected to the Messianic mythos RugbyPlayingAshaman - 09/02/2011 09:47:14 PM 1302 Views
The disciples, not Jesus, were the "fishers of men." EDITED. Ghavrel - 09/02/2011 10:08:24 PM 974 Views
Yeah, you're right about the fish - I was reaching (and typed too fast to think) RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/02/2011 05:30:29 PM 991 Views
Re: But that has always been the case. I am astounded that it isn't recognized more often... fionwe1987 - 09/02/2011 07:47:14 AM 1055 Views
You two are like a married couple without the benefit of the makeup sex. Ghavrel - 09/02/2011 09:30:10 AM 1182 Views
*NM* fionwe1987 - 10/02/2011 02:53:17 AM 465 Views
*NM* Sir Tybalt - 10/02/2011 02:52:28 PM 531 Views
Huh? No. You are so off it's not even funny. Velveti - 09/02/2011 03:16:05 AM 1208 Views
Looks like somebody hasn't read The Gathering Storm. Ghavrel - 09/02/2011 06:17:55 AM 1106 Views
Re: Looks like somebody hasn't read The Gathering Storm. Velveti - 09/02/2011 06:20:21 AM 1093 Views
Atop Dragonmount, for one... fionwe1987 - 09/02/2011 07:36:56 AM 1114 Views
I'm exhausted, so I may be misremembering. Ghavrel - 09/02/2011 09:27:18 AM 1062 Views
That was Tam. Gher - 09/02/2011 05:09:45 PM 1139 Views
That is a key difference. Japhy - 09/02/2011 06:38:24 PM 996 Views
Re: Atop Dragonmount, for one... Velveti - 09/02/2011 03:12:02 PM 1104 Views
Not at all! fionwe1987 - 10/02/2011 02:58:39 AM 984 Views
You sound like Ishamael RugbyPlayingAshaman - 09/02/2011 02:38:52 PM 1098 Views
Re: You sound like Ishamael Velveti - 09/02/2011 03:17:58 PM 1056 Views
I'm definitely not confusing this with the real world roflmao RugbyPlayingAshaman - 09/02/2011 03:54:04 PM 1154 Views
Re: I'm definitely not confusing this with the real world roflmao Velveti - 09/02/2011 06:10:01 PM 1144 Views
Seems to me that you're confused. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 09/02/2011 08:27:06 PM 901 Views
Seems to me that YOU'RE confused. Velveti - 10/02/2011 02:09:41 AM 1064 Views
You might actually want to read what people wrote. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/02/2011 03:13:52 PM 961 Views
The amount of elitism on this board would be depressing if it weren't so damned funny. Ghavrel - 09/02/2011 09:18:13 PM 1022 Views
What depresses me... entyti - 09/02/2011 11:23:13 PM 965 Views
I, personally, like it. It makes sense for the Dragon to be an incarnation of the Serpent. Ghavrel - 09/02/2011 11:39:28 PM 1072 Views
I didn't mean to hijack it - other replies did RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/02/2011 02:51:35 PM 1030 Views
It is of little consequence entyti - 10/02/2011 05:36:40 PM 988 Views
Relax homeboy. It was a joke. *NM* Velveti - 10/02/2011 02:07:55 AM 556 Views
I guess the DO just has "Serpent Envy?" *NM* newyorkersedai - 12/02/2011 01:13:40 PM 518 Views
*NM* entyti - 12/02/2011 02:47:09 PM 504 Views
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