But that is my point: it wouldn't be merely force of will.
RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 13/12/2011 09:40:17 PM
This would not be like a women randomly believing that she could make herself stronger if she got angry enough. What I am describing is a woman's individual destiny being that at one particular moment in her life, she will be strong enough to do whatever the Pattern needed her to do. The Pattern's most direct way to do this would be through making her a t'a'veren for that one moment. We might even see this same circular reasoning in how one gains strength in the Power; it could be said, philosophically, that individual gains in the Power are meant to make sure each individual is capable of fulfilling what the Wheel wills at that moment. You could almost attribute an almost biblical quality to what seems like a mechanical process: the Pattern gives you strength in a direct portion to what you need to accomplish in a given life.
The scene in which Rand visits Egwene in the Hall is interesting when I think of the metaphysical underpinnings of the One Power; in this moment, even if every single Aes Sedai wove a Shield and meant to hold Rand, something about his soul had changed, and they sensed it on a higher level (i.e. the Pattern). They sensed the possibility that despite all notions of reality, in that moment, he was so powerful that they couldn't hold him despite every one of them trying. Despite this, it almost seemed that his fate was in Egwene's hands, and the Pattern hinged on if she would allow him to leave or decided to hold him. Could they have held him if they wanted to? I don't think we can say his "strength", as we've been discussing it, has increased, but it seems very definitive that his channeling is much more powerful than it used to be. I tend to think that what the Ashaman saw was Rand channeling the One Power directly through his eternal soul, and only partially filtered through his body as is usually the case.
I'm not disagreeing with you, entirely: I basically don't think we can quantify what the One Power really is, and when we talk about "strength", it is something more gross and connected to physical limitations or mundane judgments (i.e. the volume, mass, etc. you had mentioned) but if the Pattern needed you to be stronger and/or on some deep level you felt that you needed to put forth all of your strength to accomplish some mission, you could connect to a higher plane of your metaphysical existence to do it. Kind of like a woman whose child is pinned under a car suddenly finding the strength to lift the car and push it away; in that moment, there was a connection between her divine, eternal spirit that exceeded height, weight, volume, etc.
The scene in which Rand visits Egwene in the Hall is interesting when I think of the metaphysical underpinnings of the One Power; in this moment, even if every single Aes Sedai wove a Shield and meant to hold Rand, something about his soul had changed, and they sensed it on a higher level (i.e. the Pattern). They sensed the possibility that despite all notions of reality, in that moment, he was so powerful that they couldn't hold him despite every one of them trying. Despite this, it almost seemed that his fate was in Egwene's hands, and the Pattern hinged on if she would allow him to leave or decided to hold him. Could they have held him if they wanted to? I don't think we can say his "strength", as we've been discussing it, has increased, but it seems very definitive that his channeling is much more powerful than it used to be. I tend to think that what the Ashaman saw was Rand channeling the One Power directly through his eternal soul, and only partially filtered through his body as is usually the case.
I'm not disagreeing with you, entirely: I basically don't think we can quantify what the One Power really is, and when we talk about "strength", it is something more gross and connected to physical limitations or mundane judgments (i.e. the volume, mass, etc. you had mentioned) but if the Pattern needed you to be stronger and/or on some deep level you felt that you needed to put forth all of your strength to accomplish some mission, you could connect to a higher plane of your metaphysical existence to do it. Kind of like a woman whose child is pinned under a car suddenly finding the strength to lift the car and push it away; in that moment, there was a connection between her divine, eternal spirit that exceeded height, weight, volume, etc.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
This message last edited by RugbyPlayingAshaman on 13/12/2011 at 09:42:39 PM
Underestimating Forsaken strength
- 11/12/2011 05:57:22 AM
2051 Views
Yes, you are probably correct
- 12/12/2011 06:26:07 AM
1096 Views
Re: and some of the information given to us is flawed
- 12/12/2011 07:38:59 PM
883 Views
The real question is - What percentage of her full strength did Nynaeve achieve by Book 4?
- 12/12/2011 08:31:30 PM
918 Views
I find that unlikely
- 12/12/2011 09:28:07 PM
877 Views
Easy question for you: Based on the evidence, what percentage of her strength was Nynaeve at in tSR?
- 13/12/2011 07:09:56 AM
935 Views
Well....
- 13/12/2011 01:12:48 PM
914 Views
Well there we have it
- 13/12/2011 01:36:45 PM
924 Views
Re: Well there we have it
- 13/12/2011 02:06:14 PM
962 Views
Re: Well there we have it
- 13/12/2011 02:12:10 PM
899 Views
Alivia may not even be stronger than Nynaeve...
- 14/12/2011 03:14:06 AM
967 Views
That wouldn't surprise me actually *NM*
- 14/12/2011 07:46:47 AM
487 Views
Where would you place Egwene though?
- 14/12/2011 09:13:46 AM
870 Views
Re: Where would you place Egwene though?
- 14/12/2011 12:53:49 PM
865 Views
Bonfire next to a candle indeed. Hehehe...
- 14/12/2011 05:50:34 PM
1034 Views
- 14/12/2011 06:56:40 PM
816 Views
- 14/12/2011 06:56:40 PM
816 Views
The same "step" you refer to seperates Egwene from normal Aes Sedai according to RJ...
- 14/12/2011 07:14:55 PM
865 Views
Yes I would agree with that
- 14/12/2011 08:24:35 PM
1013 Views
Alivia with an angreal > > > Cyndane
- 14/12/2011 08:50:41 PM
805 Views
So many instances of logical laziness in that post...
- 14/12/2011 10:01:45 PM
1331 Views
Re: So many instances of logical laziness in that post...
- 15/12/2011 06:16:01 AM
834 Views
There's always room for error, and in general I agree with some of your placements...
- 15/12/2011 07:03:01 AM
907 Views
Re: There's always room for error, and in general I agree with some of your placements...
- 17/12/2011 10:25:47 AM
940 Views
Because a difference of a few % is negligible, and not even worth mentioning...
- 17/12/2011 10:54:49 AM
824 Views
Yes
- 13/12/2011 04:16:40 PM
995 Views
Re: Yes
- 13/12/2011 04:47:17 PM
914 Views
Nah. Beyond the realm of possibility. Sorry,
- 13/12/2011 05:12:40 PM
973 Views
There are a number of comments from Q&As that shows that this is possible and more complex.
- 13/12/2011 08:23:49 PM
942 Views
None of which I disagree with, but a far cry from women being weaker just due to believing it...
- 13/12/2011 08:39:40 PM
857 Views
But that is my point: it wouldn't be merely force of will.
- 13/12/2011 09:40:17 PM
840 Views
Wait.. I DIDN'T write that!
- 14/12/2011 03:02:04 AM
841 Views
Reply to your question of - "Why use Logain gateway comparison as evidence:"
- 17/12/2011 03:08:19 PM
972 Views
On gateways
- 18/12/2011 07:17:09 AM
941 Views
Might assume that Elayne is stronger in the Power than Aviendha.
- 19/12/2011 02:40:46 PM
1130 Views
I suspect he knows that...
- 19/12/2011 05:53:00 PM
833 Views
