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Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate DomA Send a noteboard - 07/03/2012 10:55:56 PM
That's kind of stating the obvious don't you think? How they could possibly know it magnified the effects of the Taint before saidin got tainted?

They may have noticed the flaw and thought it was insignificant, which it might have been, until the taint came along. This sort of thinking can be applied to most modern technologies.

It wasn't so insignificant. LTT planned to use a powerful circle at SG to seal the DO. It was a deed that could be accomplished by one person (the circle leader), with enough power and precision, and since it was plan A, it was preferable that one person accomplished it (does this mean it forced LTT to combine seven seals made by seven channellers separately instead of one made by a circle or one man with a big san'angreal? Maybe). At least two of the most powerful san'angreal ever made for men were made during the WOS, which combined with LTT's fear tells us that AS have willingly limited the power of san'angreal before the war forced them to risk having those around. In other words, LTT using Callandor could well have been the original alternative for the Sealing, but the flawed buffer requiring a circle with two women would have removed Callandor from the realm of possibilities, because of the Concord.


It's all assumption, no one knows what's going to happen.


I didn't mean the speculation of what's going to happen, I meant presenting the "magnification of the taint" the way you did. RJ didn't RAFO the questions about san'angreal and the TP, he flat out said the ones made for the OP don't work for the TP. He didn't leave a door open that in some conditions a san'angreal could be used for the TP or anything like that.

Callandor is the only sa'angreal or angreal that actually magnifies an effect of the taint. Even drawing through the CK keeps the taint proportional and doesn't magnify it.


That's almost certainly due to the faulty buffer. Most likely, the magnification of the effects of the taint on someone's mind occurs when you reach the "unsafe zone" and your mind start losing control. That's what seems to happen to Rand in TPOD. He started drawing too much and he both lost control of his channelling and lost touch with reality, as if madness was very suddenly catching up with him. The buffer prevents the channeller from drawing an unsafe amount, but using large amounts of tainted saidin does no good to a channneler's mind. LTT appeared in Rand's mind after he used Callandor in Tear, Rand got far worse after he used Callandor in TPOD, and got worse again after the Cleansing. Callandor just makes this worse, using the CK still did no good to Rand.

Its mysterious because the crystal sword clearly has a role to play at the LB, and not the CK or any other sa'angreal. Its a big mystery to Min and Cadsuane certainly.


The revelation came too early in the game, a third into the finale. The prophecy is transparent, and it after all concerns the biggest resolution to the whole series. Why would RJ spoil it so early? Something is fishy.

IMO, it's most likely a well crafted red herring designed to distract us from two things: Rand's new sword (Justice) about which LTT knows things "he wouldn't tell Rand" (and that Rand made a point earlier on to tell no one, and specifically not even Min, what sword it is), and the fact the three ta'veren are "merging" (so to speak - I'm referring to the colour swirls and their increasing effects). Brandon confirmed it's Justice, even though he shrouded the sword in mystery in the book itself. So the fact it's Hawkwing's sword isn't what's important about it, and not probably related to it's importance. I would discount the part about Callandor or Justice if not from the fact it's pretty obvious the three becoming one has to refer to Perrin, Mat and Rand. If it's not referring to a circle, then the sword from the prophecy isn't necessarily Callandor, and enters the picture what LTT knows about Hawkwing's sword that (before Rand's epiphany) he was keeping from Rand. Justice is referred to in one of the fourth Age verses we have, which could indicate it's importance through the LB and rather obviously Rand won't keep its identity hidden forever.

How could Justice possibly be used at SG? Where do the three ta'veren being one comes into play? *Shrug*. Not being obvious isn't a point against it, the sealing/removal of the Bore is after all the biggest story resolution of the whole book, and of the whole series. LTT knows things about the sword. It's credible that it could mean the OP can be channeled in it. Using a ter'angreal could be a way to avoid touching the DO directly with the OP.

As I said elsewhere, I think Cadsuane is going to get a very disappointing answer for Rand about Callandor and the LB, and likely this will come at a bad time, when time is running out and Rand is still clueless about what to do to get rid of the Bore. I'm pretty sure if there was something special about it, the discovery would have come from LTT/Rand, not served him on a plate by Cadsuane.

I'm also terribly suspicious about AS interpreting prophecies. In the series, whenever one did they were systematically wrong. I've also noticed Min is, shall we say, less than satisfied with their current attempt to decipher the one concerning the sword and the three becoming one. It's like the whole subtext is that they're wrong.

Callandor will be used during the LB (it's the last big male san'angreal after all), just not anywhere near the Pit of Doom.

Its more than likely that his link to the TP is through Moridin.


The intuitive knowledge of how to draw the True Power he must have drawn straight from Moridin's mind, without realizing it much the same way Moridin has inconsciously on occasion (strong emotions etc.)Rand's reactions/emotions (and must realize it to make it stop). The mental state to embrace the True Power is related yet completely different (even opposite) from the state of mind to embrace saidin. It's a terribly dark state of mind, likely very difficult to achieve for most people but the Forsaken (you need to embrace evil, so to speak), or people swallowed by darkness the way Rand was at the time. That takes care of the first of RJ's two conditions: "it's a matter of knowing how". Rand didn't, but in a moment of intense emotion Moridin would have shared, he drew it from him inconsciously. As for the second condition...

The notion that he drew the TP through Moridin who as far as we know was very far away, and without the DO any the wiser sounds 100% silly to me, and if that were true, Shai'tan would make sure it won't happen again. But it didn't happen. Rand put himself in the right state of mind, and Shai'tan let him draw it, no different from any Forsaken with the permission. Giving Rand a taste of the highly addictive TP was well worth Semirhage's life.

The True Power is the DO himself, his essence. This is a world of opposites, so it's virtually certain the True Source is the essence of the Creator. The DO almost certainly could stop Rand from tapping it if he wanted to, not to mention it's not very reasonable to think the DO's own essence could have any effect channelled back at.. the DO's own essence.

The DO may be caught by the decision to cut off the Nae'blis from the TP leaving him ultimately defenseless, or the chance that Rand could draw on it again


This contradicts RJ's second conditions to draw the True Power: you need the DO's permission. Sanderson turned that in "you normally need the DO's permission" but RJ's answer didn't have this ambiguity at all (when he had to answer that way, RJ simply RAFO, or told us his answer was partial), and it's fairly obvious Sanderson was telling us "the DO let Rand use it" without confirming the DO let Rand use the TP. He waltzed around the question of the betrayal of Semirhage much the same way. The issue that the DO let Rand use the TP and why probably returns later on.



This message last edited by DomA on 07/03/2012 at 11:14:06 PM
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What's so special about Callandor? - 06/03/2012 07:31:40 PM 2002 Views
Honestly, I'm more curious about the "Dragon-only" barrier that surrounded it - 06/03/2012 09:16:15 PM 941 Views
I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 06/03/2012 09:56:02 PM 1002 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 04:11:21 AM 1079 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 10:31:39 AM 904 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 10:55:56 PM 938 Views
RJ addressed this ... I had a similar thought several years back and this quote was floated my way - 07/03/2012 04:18:01 AM 946 Views
Hmm.... - 07/03/2012 01:50:07 PM 873 Views
Very similar to what you are getting at as I recall - 07/03/2012 02:00:56 PM 757 Views
Using the True Power to win Tarmon Gai'don goes against every moral in the series. - 07/03/2012 07:00:02 AM 816 Views
actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 10:36:03 AM 717 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 06:02:48 PM 776 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 06:18:16 PM 738 Views
If anything the Dark One WANTS Lews Therin to use the TP *NM* - 07/03/2012 09:43:20 PM 505 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 11:38:56 PM 908 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 10/03/2012 11:52:23 AM 917 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 10/03/2012 06:40:00 PM 770 Views
Have to agree with you on this - 12/03/2012 01:17:06 AM 791 Views
Re: Have to agree with you on this - 12/03/2012 02:36:13 PM 752 Views
Fain has become so much more than human. We have no real sense of the limits of his power - 18/03/2012 11:21:54 PM 640 Views
Shai'tan is the opposite half of the Creator. - 19/03/2012 01:44:31 AM 636 Views
I actually don't see it that way - 19/03/2012 03:37:26 AM 784 Views
depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 10:41:28 AM 832 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 01:07:21 PM 609 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 08:12:17 PM 708 Views
Odds are you are correct - 19/03/2012 11:45:03 PM 583 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 20/03/2012 12:51:48 PM 546 Views
The DO did not not destroy Mashadar alone - 19/03/2012 11:42:21 PM 612 Views
That's not correct. - 20/03/2012 01:55:05 AM 610 Views
Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 01:11:17 PM 861 Views
Re: Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 04:27:33 PM 537 Views
Re: Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 04:57:08 PM 874 Views
You explantion is - 20/03/2012 06:17:52 PM 654 Views
Agreed *NM* - 19/03/2012 11:40:40 PM 326 Views
RJ Quote: - 19/03/2012 06:52:12 PM 587 Views
Exactly - 19/03/2012 08:54:22 PM 897 Views
Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 19/03/2012 11:48:20 PM 599 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 01:06:20 PM 602 Views
My point with imagination is simply that destruction only does 1 thing - 20/03/2012 01:14:55 PM 746 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 04:35:17 PM 595 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 04:59:13 PM 582 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 08:57:35 PM 695 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 21/03/2012 01:09:13 PM 640 Views
Yep . - 21/03/2012 04:51:15 PM 603 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 14/03/2012 12:15:36 PM 697 Views
except the TP is not just a tool. - 14/03/2012 01:41:17 PM 694 Views
No, the Choedan Kal was a tool. - 14/03/2012 05:20:53 PM 535 Views
Sounds like the One Ring - 04/05/2012 03:55:01 PM 738 Views
I totally agree with you on both issues Ben - 07/03/2012 11:44:42 PM 864 Views
No, I don't agree - 10/03/2012 12:11:37 PM 799 Views
That makes no sense... - 10/03/2012 09:21:19 PM 620 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 11/03/2012 12:25:53 AM 659 Views
Name an existing well that has that much power, though. - 11/03/2012 01:11:40 AM 594 Views
He makes a good point though. - 11/03/2012 05:49:59 AM 641 Views
Yes, but... - 11/03/2012 06:17:25 AM 596 Views
Re: Yes, but... - 11/03/2012 06:47:43 PM 610 Views
I found a couple of quote - 12/03/2012 12:00:36 AM 825 Views
Yeah, I looked through Terez' quote database. - 12/03/2012 12:46:38 AM 637 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 11/03/2012 08:54:11 AM 779 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 12/03/2012 02:15:19 PM 851 Views
Re: No, I don't agree - 12/03/2012 01:49:10 PM 819 Views
How the Three can become One using the True Power...mindtraps of Moggy and Cyndane... - 12/03/2012 06:04:22 PM 688 Views
Whether it happens or not, it might explain the choice of mind trap victims - 13/03/2012 06:43:45 AM 792 Views
Re: Whether it happens or not, it might explain the choice of mind trap victims - 13/03/2012 05:19:21 PM 623 Views
That's what I meant - 18/03/2012 11:13:19 PM 728 Views

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