Active Users:183 Time:18/05/2024 12:54:32 PM
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 07/03/2012 11:38:56 PM
Thats opinion, and not supported by the text of that scene IMO. Rand reached out to anything he could to save his wife whom he was about to murder. It was desperation, not malice. The fact that he had access to the TP is a physical occurence ... He's linked to Moridin. Obviously the DO wanted Rand to channel it and there's no denying that Rand is close to evil before his renaissance, but the Forsaken are also evil and they don't want to touch it, so its really not linked to any sort of moral standing on his part.


I meant narratively, not that his moral alignment is a physical prerequisite for accessing the True Power. You're right in that I don't think Rand being good would actually prevent him from using it if Shai'tan allowed, but the themes of the story are quite clear that using the Shadow's weapons against it is the wrong way.

Well I thought I was addressing the Moridin issue. The DO may need to cut him off from the TP to stop Rand from using it, which he may not want to do. Unless Rand is in the Bore he needs Moridin to defend the Shadow.

As for TDR he didnt need to beg the DO for assistance. He may have been using the TP all along. At that point it says he became darker than the light of Callandor. The DO may have filled him with a massive amount of the TP, hence Ishamael's triumphant look.


There's nothing that would indicate that. The end of that confrontation indicates a change in Ba'alzamon's pattern of attack, not in the power of those attacks. If he had been using small balls of blackness and now suddenly had a large ball of blackness, I might agree. But as is, there is no indication that he was using the same power source (in fact, I get the impression that he was using Dreamwalking techniques more than either sort of Power in that battle. We've never seen anyone use Channelling to fill a room with water, for example, or altering air pressure, or gravity, and so forth). Besides, I wonder why you think it is more reasonable to claim Ishamael needed to beg Shai'tan to change the quantity of Power he was using, rather than to access it at all. We at least know that the latter is the general rule.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
Reply to message
What's so special about Callandor? - 06/03/2012 07:31:40 PM 2005 Views
Honestly, I'm more curious about the "Dragon-only" barrier that surrounded it - 06/03/2012 09:16:15 PM 943 Views
I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 06/03/2012 09:56:02 PM 1003 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 04:11:21 AM 1081 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 10:31:39 AM 906 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 10:55:56 PM 939 Views
RJ addressed this ... I had a similar thought several years back and this quote was floated my way - 07/03/2012 04:18:01 AM 947 Views
Hmm.... - 07/03/2012 01:50:07 PM 874 Views
Very similar to what you are getting at as I recall - 07/03/2012 02:00:56 PM 758 Views
Using the True Power to win Tarmon Gai'don goes against every moral in the series. - 07/03/2012 07:00:02 AM 817 Views
actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 10:36:03 AM 719 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 06:02:48 PM 778 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 06:18:16 PM 740 Views
If anything the Dark One WANTS Lews Therin to use the TP *NM* - 07/03/2012 09:43:20 PM 505 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 11:38:56 PM 910 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 10/03/2012 11:52:23 AM 918 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 10/03/2012 06:40:00 PM 772 Views
Have to agree with you on this - 12/03/2012 01:17:06 AM 793 Views
Re: Have to agree with you on this - 12/03/2012 02:36:13 PM 754 Views
Fain has become so much more than human. We have no real sense of the limits of his power - 18/03/2012 11:21:54 PM 641 Views
Shai'tan is the opposite half of the Creator. - 19/03/2012 01:44:31 AM 638 Views
I actually don't see it that way - 19/03/2012 03:37:26 AM 786 Views
depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 10:41:28 AM 834 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 01:07:21 PM 611 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 08:12:17 PM 709 Views
Odds are you are correct - 19/03/2012 11:45:03 PM 585 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 20/03/2012 12:51:48 PM 547 Views
The DO did not not destroy Mashadar alone - 19/03/2012 11:42:21 PM 613 Views
That's not correct. - 20/03/2012 01:55:05 AM 610 Views
Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 01:11:17 PM 862 Views
Re: Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 04:27:33 PM 538 Views
Re: Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 04:57:08 PM 875 Views
You explantion is - 20/03/2012 06:17:52 PM 656 Views
Agreed *NM* - 19/03/2012 11:40:40 PM 326 Views
RJ Quote: - 19/03/2012 06:52:12 PM 588 Views
Exactly - 19/03/2012 08:54:22 PM 899 Views
Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 19/03/2012 11:48:20 PM 600 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 01:06:20 PM 603 Views
My point with imagination is simply that destruction only does 1 thing - 20/03/2012 01:14:55 PM 748 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 04:35:17 PM 596 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 04:59:13 PM 584 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 08:57:35 PM 697 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 21/03/2012 01:09:13 PM 642 Views
Yep . - 21/03/2012 04:51:15 PM 605 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 14/03/2012 12:15:36 PM 697 Views
except the TP is not just a tool. - 14/03/2012 01:41:17 PM 694 Views
No, the Choedan Kal was a tool. - 14/03/2012 05:20:53 PM 537 Views
Sounds like the One Ring - 04/05/2012 03:55:01 PM 738 Views
I totally agree with you on both issues Ben - 07/03/2012 11:44:42 PM 865 Views
No, I don't agree - 10/03/2012 12:11:37 PM 800 Views
That makes no sense... - 10/03/2012 09:21:19 PM 622 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 11/03/2012 12:25:53 AM 661 Views
Name an existing well that has that much power, though. - 11/03/2012 01:11:40 AM 596 Views
He makes a good point though. - 11/03/2012 05:49:59 AM 643 Views
Yes, but... - 11/03/2012 06:17:25 AM 598 Views
Re: Yes, but... - 11/03/2012 06:47:43 PM 611 Views
I found a couple of quote - 12/03/2012 12:00:36 AM 827 Views
Yeah, I looked through Terez' quote database. - 12/03/2012 12:46:38 AM 637 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 11/03/2012 08:54:11 AM 781 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 12/03/2012 02:15:19 PM 851 Views
Re: No, I don't agree - 12/03/2012 01:49:10 PM 821 Views
How the Three can become One using the True Power...mindtraps of Moggy and Cyndane... - 12/03/2012 06:04:22 PM 690 Views
Whether it happens or not, it might explain the choice of mind trap victims - 13/03/2012 06:43:45 AM 792 Views
Re: Whether it happens or not, it might explain the choice of mind trap victims - 13/03/2012 05:19:21 PM 624 Views
That's what I meant - 18/03/2012 11:13:19 PM 730 Views

Reply to Message