Active Users:187 Time:18/05/2024 05:12:33 AM
I totally agree with you on both issues Ben DomA Send a noteboard - 07/03/2012 11:44:42 PM
On a purely practical level, why would Shai'tan allow it? The True Power is not an impersonal power source like the True Source, it's Shai'tan essence. Even if you contend that his link with Moridin will allow him access, even Ishamael needed to beg Shai'tan's support, see their confrontation at the end of The Dragon Reborn.

In D&D terms, one is Wizard magic and the other is Cleric magic.


Rand didn't just touch the TP in TGS as part of a lure by the DO. I'm sure it serves a greater purpose.


Actually, it served a lower purpose. It was an indication of how far Rand had fallen at the time. That part of the story was all about how dark Rand was becoming, and that Shai'tan was granting him direct access to the power of pure evil is indication enough of that.

As I said, something has to touch the DO. Unless you have a theory on what could be used to prevent the taint occurring again, I think the TP is a good alternative.


I don't know how they're going to fix the prison, but that doesn't make your suggestion any more feasible. The burden of proof is on your claim, and you haven't addressed either of the evident flaws I mentioned in the previous post.


That Rand would use the True Power in those scenes seems to contradict everything it's all about.

The subtext in the scene where he used it was that he had embraced evil and was in communion with Shai'tan himself. He bathed in his presence through him, its power, its ectasy. This was also the state of mind completely opposite to the one Rand experienced at his epiphany, which made him decide to go on and save the world. It was a dark, evil, nihilistic state of mind. Rand can't be in that state of mind and wish saving the world. Through several books, Rand's loss of feelings and humanity has been presented as his great weakness and a grave danger for the world. It's what Min, Cadsuane and co. all feared, going as far as saying a Dragon like that would be as bad as victory of the DO... It goes way back, the first sign of soemthing "wrong" with Rand and his emotions came from Asmodean, who told him it isn't normal that he felt no emotions once he's connected with saidin. That Rand would now need to embrace that evil state of mind at SG is in flagrant contradiction with many of the themes. He couldn't maintain that state and use his bonds to his women or his connection to Perrin Mat. It's a utterly evil, unhuman and nihilistic state of mind.

Another logical problem with the theory is that it manages more or less to explain that Rand can draw the TP from his connection to Moridin. That's all well and good, but it combines this with the fact Rand will use Callandor with two women. We don't even know if it's possible to form a circle using the TP (and personally I highly doubt it... the whole themes surrounding the Shadow is "every one for himself";), but let's say it is for the sake of it. What we know, though, is that a channeler must be placed on the verge of embracing the source to enter a circle. With which two women Rand could possibly do this using the TP? Which two women near Rand could put themselves in the proper evil state of mind to embrace the True Power? Moiraine, Nynaeve, Egwene, Alivia, Cadsuane? LOL! Rand trying to explain to Nynaeve that in order to defeat evil they must agree to fully embrace it and be in communion with Shai'tan himself, and let his essence run through them would make for a rich scene, one that would end with Nynaeve (or Moiraine, Egwene, Cadsuane... take you pick) kicking the hell out of Rand. The whole thematic structure of this doesn't work and contradicts Rand's epiphany. Rand had to become one with Creation and with humanity, which began by fully embracing his feelings for his loved ones and friends. The TP is the opposite, a utter rejection of all that, cold as ice hatred and nihilism.
















Reply to message
What's so special about Callandor? - 06/03/2012 07:31:40 PM 2002 Views
Honestly, I'm more curious about the "Dragon-only" barrier that surrounded it - 06/03/2012 09:16:15 PM 941 Views
I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 06/03/2012 09:56:02 PM 1002 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 04:11:21 AM 1079 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 10:31:39 AM 904 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 10:55:56 PM 937 Views
RJ addressed this ... I had a similar thought several years back and this quote was floated my way - 07/03/2012 04:18:01 AM 946 Views
Hmm.... - 07/03/2012 01:50:07 PM 873 Views
Very similar to what you are getting at as I recall - 07/03/2012 02:00:56 PM 757 Views
Using the True Power to win Tarmon Gai'don goes against every moral in the series. - 07/03/2012 07:00:02 AM 816 Views
actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 10:36:03 AM 717 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 06:02:48 PM 776 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 06:18:16 PM 738 Views
If anything the Dark One WANTS Lews Therin to use the TP *NM* - 07/03/2012 09:43:20 PM 505 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 11:38:56 PM 908 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 10/03/2012 11:52:23 AM 917 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 10/03/2012 06:40:00 PM 770 Views
Have to agree with you on this - 12/03/2012 01:17:06 AM 791 Views
Re: Have to agree with you on this - 12/03/2012 02:36:13 PM 752 Views
Fain has become so much more than human. We have no real sense of the limits of his power - 18/03/2012 11:21:54 PM 640 Views
Shai'tan is the opposite half of the Creator. - 19/03/2012 01:44:31 AM 636 Views
I actually don't see it that way - 19/03/2012 03:37:26 AM 784 Views
depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 10:41:28 AM 832 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 01:07:21 PM 609 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 08:12:17 PM 707 Views
Odds are you are correct - 19/03/2012 11:45:03 PM 583 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 20/03/2012 12:51:48 PM 545 Views
The DO did not not destroy Mashadar alone - 19/03/2012 11:42:21 PM 612 Views
That's not correct. - 20/03/2012 01:55:05 AM 610 Views
Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 01:11:17 PM 861 Views
Re: Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 04:27:33 PM 537 Views
Re: Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 04:57:08 PM 874 Views
You explantion is - 20/03/2012 06:17:52 PM 654 Views
Agreed *NM* - 19/03/2012 11:40:40 PM 326 Views
RJ Quote: - 19/03/2012 06:52:12 PM 586 Views
Exactly - 19/03/2012 08:54:22 PM 897 Views
Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 19/03/2012 11:48:20 PM 598 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 01:06:20 PM 601 Views
My point with imagination is simply that destruction only does 1 thing - 20/03/2012 01:14:55 PM 746 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 04:35:17 PM 594 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 04:59:13 PM 582 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 08:57:35 PM 695 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 21/03/2012 01:09:13 PM 640 Views
Yep . - 21/03/2012 04:51:15 PM 603 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 14/03/2012 12:15:36 PM 697 Views
except the TP is not just a tool. - 14/03/2012 01:41:17 PM 694 Views
No, the Choedan Kal was a tool. - 14/03/2012 05:20:53 PM 535 Views
Sounds like the One Ring - 04/05/2012 03:55:01 PM 738 Views
I totally agree with you on both issues Ben - 07/03/2012 11:44:42 PM 864 Views
No, I don't agree - 10/03/2012 12:11:37 PM 799 Views
That makes no sense... - 10/03/2012 09:21:19 PM 620 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 11/03/2012 12:25:53 AM 659 Views
Name an existing well that has that much power, though. - 11/03/2012 01:11:40 AM 594 Views
He makes a good point though. - 11/03/2012 05:49:59 AM 641 Views
Yes, but... - 11/03/2012 06:17:25 AM 596 Views
Re: Yes, but... - 11/03/2012 06:47:43 PM 610 Views
I found a couple of quote - 12/03/2012 12:00:36 AM 825 Views
Yeah, I looked through Terez' quote database. - 12/03/2012 12:46:38 AM 636 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 11/03/2012 08:54:11 AM 779 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 12/03/2012 02:15:19 PM 851 Views
Re: No, I don't agree - 12/03/2012 01:49:10 PM 819 Views
How the Three can become One using the True Power...mindtraps of Moggy and Cyndane... - 12/03/2012 06:04:22 PM 688 Views
Whether it happens or not, it might explain the choice of mind trap victims - 13/03/2012 06:43:45 AM 792 Views
Re: Whether it happens or not, it might explain the choice of mind trap victims - 13/03/2012 05:19:21 PM 623 Views
That's what I meant - 18/03/2012 11:13:19 PM 728 Views

Reply to Message