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Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues Sidious Send a noteboard - 10/03/2012 11:52:23 AM

I meant narratively, not that his moral alignment is a physical prerequisite for accessing the True Power. You're right in that I don't think Rand being good would actually prevent him from using it if Shai'tan allowed, but the themes of the story are quite clear that using the Shadow's weapons against it is the wrong way.


Well I'm not sure if I totally agree. I think that the Shadow has often been seen to screw its self. I can't think of anything more satisfying than Rand preventing another taint on the One Power using the Dark One's own magic against him. I'm not saying it will happen, but thematically I don't see a problem. I'm not saying that Rand must be evil, but it could be similar to Verin infiltrating the BA to destroy them. Sometimes the Light gets to be smug too..


There's nothing that would indicate that. The end of that confrontation indicates a change in Ba'alzamon's pattern of attack, not in the power of those attacks.

I don't agree. The text says that he suddenly becomes so black that he even soaks up the light of Callandor. Until then, the text clearly stated that he had no chance against Rand with the sa'angreal. It's a sign that he has suddenly gained equal footing, and its reflected in his triumphant look.

If he had been using small balls of blackness and now suddenly had a large ball of blackness, I might agree. But as is, there is no indication that he was using the same power source (in fact, I get the impression that he was using Dreamwalking techniques more than either sort of Power in that battle. We've never seen anyone use Channelling to fill a room with water, for example, or altering air pressure, or gravity, and so forth).


I agree with you that he was dreamwalking until then. Well, mostly. I think his initial attacks of balefire were channeled, but after that he travelled and most likely went to TAR where Rand chased after him. I think you probably could do all of those things with the OP if you had the aptitudes, but Ishamael is strong in TAR, its logical he'd go there if being chased by a strong channeler.

Apart from that, I'm not sure if you're contending that Ishamael used saidin mostly and had to beg for TP use? I find that completely unlikely. I think his appearance is more than evidence enough that he is an exclusive TP user and has been since the War of Power.

Besides, I wonder why you think it is more reasonable to claim Ishamael needed to beg Shai'tan to change the quantity of Power he was using, rather than to access it at all. We at least know that the latter is the general rule.

I guess he asked the DO to aid him directly. That's sort of like having your patron god come down and defend you.
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What's so special about Callandor? - 06/03/2012 07:31:40 PM 2005 Views
Honestly, I'm more curious about the "Dragon-only" barrier that surrounded it - 06/03/2012 09:16:15 PM 943 Views
I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 06/03/2012 09:56:02 PM 1003 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 04:11:21 AM 1081 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 10:31:39 AM 906 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 10:55:56 PM 939 Views
RJ addressed this ... I had a similar thought several years back and this quote was floated my way - 07/03/2012 04:18:01 AM 947 Views
Hmm.... - 07/03/2012 01:50:07 PM 875 Views
Very similar to what you are getting at as I recall - 07/03/2012 02:00:56 PM 758 Views
Using the True Power to win Tarmon Gai'don goes against every moral in the series. - 07/03/2012 07:00:02 AM 817 Views
actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 10:36:03 AM 719 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 06:02:48 PM 778 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 06:18:16 PM 740 Views
If anything the Dark One WANTS Lews Therin to use the TP *NM* - 07/03/2012 09:43:20 PM 505 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 11:38:56 PM 910 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 10/03/2012 11:52:23 AM 919 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 10/03/2012 06:40:00 PM 772 Views
Have to agree with you on this - 12/03/2012 01:17:06 AM 793 Views
Re: Have to agree with you on this - 12/03/2012 02:36:13 PM 754 Views
Fain has become so much more than human. We have no real sense of the limits of his power - 18/03/2012 11:21:54 PM 641 Views
Shai'tan is the opposite half of the Creator. - 19/03/2012 01:44:31 AM 638 Views
I actually don't see it that way - 19/03/2012 03:37:26 AM 786 Views
depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 10:41:28 AM 834 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 01:07:21 PM 611 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 08:12:17 PM 709 Views
Odds are you are correct - 19/03/2012 11:45:03 PM 585 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 20/03/2012 12:51:48 PM 547 Views
The DO did not not destroy Mashadar alone - 19/03/2012 11:42:21 PM 614 Views
That's not correct. - 20/03/2012 01:55:05 AM 610 Views
Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 01:11:17 PM 863 Views
Re: Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 04:27:33 PM 538 Views
Re: Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 04:57:08 PM 876 Views
You explantion is - 20/03/2012 06:17:52 PM 656 Views
Agreed *NM* - 19/03/2012 11:40:40 PM 326 Views
RJ Quote: - 19/03/2012 06:52:12 PM 588 Views
Exactly - 19/03/2012 08:54:22 PM 899 Views
Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 19/03/2012 11:48:20 PM 600 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 01:06:20 PM 603 Views
My point with imagination is simply that destruction only does 1 thing - 20/03/2012 01:14:55 PM 748 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 04:35:17 PM 596 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 04:59:13 PM 584 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 08:57:35 PM 697 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 21/03/2012 01:09:13 PM 642 Views
Yep . - 21/03/2012 04:51:15 PM 605 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 14/03/2012 12:15:36 PM 697 Views
except the TP is not just a tool. - 14/03/2012 01:41:17 PM 694 Views
No, the Choedan Kal was a tool. - 14/03/2012 05:20:53 PM 537 Views
Sounds like the One Ring - 04/05/2012 03:55:01 PM 738 Views
I totally agree with you on both issues Ben - 07/03/2012 11:44:42 PM 865 Views
No, I don't agree - 10/03/2012 12:11:37 PM 800 Views
That makes no sense... - 10/03/2012 09:21:19 PM 622 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 11/03/2012 12:25:53 AM 661 Views
Name an existing well that has that much power, though. - 11/03/2012 01:11:40 AM 596 Views
He makes a good point though. - 11/03/2012 05:49:59 AM 643 Views
Yes, but... - 11/03/2012 06:17:25 AM 598 Views
Re: Yes, but... - 11/03/2012 06:47:43 PM 612 Views
I found a couple of quote - 12/03/2012 12:00:36 AM 827 Views
Yeah, I looked through Terez' quote database. - 12/03/2012 12:46:38 AM 637 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 11/03/2012 08:54:11 AM 781 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 12/03/2012 02:15:19 PM 851 Views
Re: No, I don't agree - 12/03/2012 01:49:10 PM 821 Views
How the Three can become One using the True Power...mindtraps of Moggy and Cyndane... - 12/03/2012 06:04:22 PM 690 Views
Whether it happens or not, it might explain the choice of mind trap victims - 13/03/2012 06:43:45 AM 792 Views
Re: Whether it happens or not, it might explain the choice of mind trap victims - 13/03/2012 05:19:21 PM 625 Views
That's what I meant - 18/03/2012 11:13:19 PM 730 Views

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