Of course, but the point of my example was...
Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 17/04/2012 06:08:09 PM
... that without some manner of standards, anything can be justified 'indirectly'. For example, you say that Rand forcing peace between the Seanchan and the rest of the world, leading to the Aiel being bored, leading to the Aiel waging a war against the Seanchan they cannot win, leading to their destruction as a people after thousands of years, is sufficient justification for attributing the destruction of the Aiel to Rand.
I say it is not. These are not Prophecies of things that will happen, they are specifically prophecies about what Rand will do, and I require a more direct connection between Rand's actions and the end result.
It also sort of misses the point of the prophecy. In Aviendha's vision, the Aiel cause their own destruction because they were bored. They are a people for whom survival has always been a struggle and war has always been a fact of life. Now they are united, no longer fighting with other clans, and living in peace on lands that are, to them, excessively abundant. The problems of Aviendha's vision are thus these:
1- The Aiel have no purpose beyond fighting.
2- The Aiel are too numerous.
That second problem is the important one here. It is actually the inverse of the Rhuidean prophecy, which states that Rand will destroy the Aiel except for a remnant of a remnant which he shall save. Aviendha's vision contains instead a future where the Aiel destroy themselves because Rand saved more than a remnant.
I say it is not. These are not Prophecies of things that will happen, they are specifically prophecies about what Rand will do, and I require a more direct connection between Rand's actions and the end result.
It also sort of misses the point of the prophecy. In Aviendha's vision, the Aiel cause their own destruction because they were bored. They are a people for whom survival has always been a struggle and war has always been a fact of life. Now they are united, no longer fighting with other clans, and living in peace on lands that are, to them, excessively abundant. The problems of Aviendha's vision are thus these:
1- The Aiel have no purpose beyond fighting.
2- The Aiel are too numerous.
That second problem is the important one here. It is actually the inverse of the Rhuidean prophecy, which states that Rand will destroy the Aiel except for a remnant of a remnant which he shall save. Aviendha's vision contains instead a future where the Aiel destroy themselves because Rand saved more than a remnant.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
~Master Splinter
Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
Aviendha, the columns, and the Seanchan
- 03/04/2012 04:29:31 PM
2111 Views
The entire point, I believe, is to give Avienda the opportunity to change that future
- 03/04/2012 05:13:48 PM
1477 Views
As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway.
- 03/04/2012 07:30:52 PM
1128 Views
Depends on how one defines Aiel
- 04/04/2012 04:11:11 AM
1081 Views
There are more than there were before.
- 04/04/2012 07:03:27 AM
1082 Views
But when the prophesy was made there many followers
- 04/04/2012 10:10:54 AM
1014 Views
The Tuatha'an are not Aiel.
- 04/04/2012 06:28:47 PM
1096 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel.
- 05/04/2012 01:41:23 AM
1331 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel.
- 05/04/2012 07:39:04 AM
1156 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel.
- 05/04/2012 02:14:37 PM
1397 Views
Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well.
- 05/04/2012 06:24:56 PM
997 Views
Re: Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well.
- 06/04/2012 12:20:31 AM
1162 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel.
- 06/04/2012 10:38:24 PM
1315 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel.
- 07/04/2012 06:27:27 AM
1015 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel.
- 07/04/2012 07:23:03 PM
944 Views
So what you're saying...
- 07/04/2012 10:07:59 PM
886 Views
What I am saying is that it's not a "pure bloodline" that makes one an Aiel
- 08/04/2012 12:16:10 AM
993 Views
I never said it was.
- 08/04/2012 12:43:26 AM
1087 Views
Actually you did In your above post you speak of the Tinkers as not Aiel because they have been
- 08/04/2012 06:09:01 AM
1024 Views
No...
- 08/04/2012 07:12:22 AM
1119 Views
You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc
- 08/04/2012 05:16:54 PM
1111 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc
- 08/04/2012 06:43:27 PM
1121 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc
- 08/04/2012 07:52:10 PM
897 Views
Red hair is double recessive ... Doesn't take much to eliminate it from the gene pool. There could
- 08/04/2012 11:22:36 PM
1025 Views
You are consistently making the same mistake.
- 09/04/2012 02:45:46 AM
901 Views
They are the same thing. The remnant of a remnant are Aiel
- 10/04/2012 05:04:55 AM
1056 Views
No. They are not.
- 10/04/2012 05:42:29 AM
930 Views
Never said the remnant of the remnant was the whole of the Aiel
- 10/04/2012 05:45:47 PM
934 Views
You said that redefining the Aiel would allow Aviendha's vision to be possible.
- 10/04/2012 06:53:51 PM
1118 Views
No , I said there were many ways to interpret the statement based on how one defines Aiel
- 10/04/2012 07:36:11 PM
894 Views
All of which is entirely irrelevant.
- 10/04/2012 07:38:29 PM
910 Views
Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant
- 10/04/2012 07:47:04 PM
962 Views
Re: Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant
- 11/04/2012 01:40:36 AM
979 Views
That is what I just said
- 14/04/2012 01:41:56 AM
933 Views
What is important about that?
- 14/04/2012 04:35:55 AM
910 Views
The importance is that the prophesy says that Rand
- 14/04/2012 06:06:31 PM
1072 Views
So what you're saying is...
- 14/04/2012 09:45:36 PM
972 Views
That's exactly it
- 14/04/2012 11:21:25 PM
1030 Views
- 14/04/2012 11:21:25 PM
1030 Views
Good.
- 15/04/2012 02:01:14 AM
1052 Views
He sets it in motion, thus his actions lead to it
- 15/04/2012 02:55:13 PM
896 Views
Yes, but in that case, he is responsible for everything, ever.
- 15/04/2012 05:29:31 PM
995 Views
We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing
- 15/04/2012 07:21:29 PM
939 Views
Re: We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing
- 17/04/2012 04:18:32 AM
1137 Views
Of course, but the point of my example was...
- 17/04/2012 06:08:09 PM
912 Views
Where are you getting this happens over thousands of years?
- 18/04/2012 01:47:42 PM
866 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway.
- 04/04/2012 07:16:13 AM
1131 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway.
- 06/04/2012 10:33:00 PM
1030 Views
