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Thanks gban007 Send a noteboard - 01/01/2016 06:14:45 AM

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Regarding the helpless Sul'dam, my recollection is that Egwene freed the Damane, and then after that killed the Sul'dam, who realistically at that point weren't a direct threat, and I think it is debatable that a sister who had sworn the three oaths would have been able to kill them.

Perhaps, but I'm not convinced the Three Oaths would have stopped that. Look, we see Joline, Teslyn and Edesina hurl fireballs at an oncoming army of Seanchan. They could have just woven a wall of air to protect themselves from their arrows. But they chose to kill them anyway.

Whether the Three Oaths would have stopped this or not, though, within the combat situation they were in, Egwene did not violate any basic laws of combat by killing the sul'dam. They hadn't voluntarily disarmed, and certainly hadn't offered anything like a surrender, and were quite unlikely to anyway.


True, I think you are right, that there is good evidence that the three oaths have enough greyness within them, that even having sworn them, the same outcome could have occurred. I think it was a somewhat dubious action, but in retrospect not an action other Aes Sedai (or indeed many of the other heroes of the books, including Perrin, though Mat and Rand with their to my mind somewhat warped view of women would be different) wouldn't have undertaken themselves.



My recollection of Egwene's death is even shakier, as can't recall all the intricacies of it, but it wasn't that clear to me that she needed to overdraw in order to wipe out the Shanaran channelers - it seemed that at that point she gave up somewhat, following Gawyn's death, and so let go of things, and may have got almost the same impact either way.

Egwene already overdrew before she killed the Sharans. She was perfectly matched with Taim, and had to overdraw to overcome his Balefire. This was a done deal. She was either going to release the source, and be burned out, and completely in no position to stop the Sharans or deal with the new hole in the Pattern, or else overdraw even more and do both those things, risking death. She chose the latter, which is perfectly fair, and was the sensible and right thing to do anyway.

Fair enough, given those were the options, then yes I think either option was valid, and the option chosen the best thing for everyone involved, and the more selfless, especially as there is now potential that being burned out can be cured. I think I can see why Cannoli has a differing view on this one, but can't agree with him myself on this one.

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Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions kHz1000 - 26/12/2015 08:46:07 PM 2020 Views
My answers gban007 - 27/12/2015 02:55:35 AM 986 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions darius_sedai - 27/12/2015 04:42:28 PM 1089 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions kHz1000 - 27/12/2015 09:01:33 PM 1048 Views
Black Ajah darius_sedai - 28/12/2015 02:44:04 AM 981 Views
Mine Sidious - 27/12/2015 10:39:08 PM 1117 Views
Re: Mine kHz1000 - 28/12/2015 12:57:23 AM 1010 Views
Re: Mine Sidious - 28/12/2015 09:51:54 AM 847 Views
Re: Mine kHz1000 - 28/12/2015 02:02:33 PM 920 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions Cannoli - 28/12/2015 12:40:49 PM 1303 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions kHz1000 - 28/12/2015 01:53:00 PM 1127 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions Cannoli - 29/12/2015 11:35:09 AM 948 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions kHz1000 - 29/12/2015 05:12:46 PM 1000 Views
So about Egwene... Sidious - 28/12/2015 04:26:47 PM 1157 Views
Re: So about Egwene... Cannoli - 28/12/2015 10:52:29 PM 998 Views
Why do you bother? *NM* darius_sedai - 29/12/2015 01:23:10 AM 567 Views
Seriously... fionwe1987 - 29/12/2015 01:30:34 AM 1017 Views
Sadly I have to agree Sidious - 29/12/2015 08:46:58 AM 1042 Views
You people are the insane ones Cannoli - 29/12/2015 11:21:24 AM 1068 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones Sidious - 29/12/2015 12:10:51 PM 1090 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones Cannoli - 30/12/2015 11:25:09 AM 1051 Views
Yet it's Mesaana who forces the head to head confrontation with Egwene darius_sedai - 30/12/2015 05:25:00 PM 1057 Views
I don't get the "circumstances being created" argument anyway... fionwe1987 - 31/12/2015 02:53:14 AM 869 Views
Re: I don't get the "circumstances being created" argument anyway... Sidious - 31/12/2015 06:28:33 AM 1019 Views
Damn stupid WoT, never working out the way you think it should! Cannoli - 04/01/2016 01:38:45 AM 1061 Views
So you agree, Egwene eliminated on of the Forsaken in a direct conflict darius_sedai - 04/01/2016 03:28:35 AM 924 Views
Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. Cannoli - 04/01/2016 07:17:20 AM 1073 Views
Re: Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. darius_sedai - 04/01/2016 03:59:18 PM 983 Views
Re: Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. Sidious - 04/01/2016 04:19:00 PM 1048 Views
Well, to put things in context fionwe1987 - 04/01/2016 04:28:00 PM 1092 Views
Re: Well, to put things in context Sidious - 04/01/2016 07:05:27 PM 1161 Views
That's not the worst argument given how lame many of them were darius_sedai - 04/01/2016 06:37:44 PM 1045 Views
Uh oh Sidious - 04/01/2016 07:03:08 PM 1499 Views
*grabs Dewars* *NM* darius_sedai - 04/01/2016 08:24:05 PM 675 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones Sidious - 30/12/2015 06:22:02 PM 1169 Views
Apparently, Egwene shouldn't have killed the Sharans... fionwe1987 - 31/12/2015 02:56:08 AM 1101 Views
it's just an excuse to not give credit to a character he doesn't like darius_sedai - 31/12/2015 04:44:17 AM 1232 Views
Exactly. The double standard has always existed in Cannoli's rants. fionwe1987 - 31/12/2015 05:31:42 AM 1180 Views
Yes well I've only recently started to realize how distasteful it is Sidious - 31/12/2015 06:27:26 AM 1185 Views
Wow... the board was alive 5 years ago! fionwe1987 - 31/12/2015 08:34:03 AM 1128 Views
LOL ... Someday you'll come to realize how right we were!!! *NM* darius_sedai - 31/12/2015 05:23:18 PM 694 Views
How is this a concession? Cannoli - 04/01/2016 08:05:38 AM 1258 Views
Re: How is this a concession? Sidious - 04/01/2016 10:49:20 AM 1295 Views
You can dislike Cannoli, you can claim his arguments are biased... TyrReborn - 31/12/2015 07:09:55 PM 1160 Views
Offended? No, I find it funny, in a needs medication way darius_sedai - 31/12/2015 07:50:28 PM 1017 Views
It is possible gban007 - 01/01/2016 05:59:51 AM 1135 Views
It's also possible that he created a bunch of sock puppet handles to pat himself on the back darius_sedai - 01/01/2016 06:53:27 AM 1111 Views
Re: It's also possible that he created a bunch of sock puppet handles to pat himself on the back Sidious - 01/01/2016 08:43:43 AM 1059 Views
She's. Not. A. Real. Person. Cannoli - 02/01/2016 01:49:37 AM 1132 Views
Re: She's. Not. A. Real. Person. Sidious - 02/01/2016 04:16:39 AM 1086 Views
Re: She's. Not. A. Real. Person. lilltempest - 08/01/2016 10:33:22 PM 1055 Views
Fair enough gban007 - 01/01/2016 09:31:47 AM 875 Views
Where did I say someone who reads his posts are dumb or something? darius_sedai - 01/01/2016 05:15:30 PM 874 Views
Not directly gban007 - 01/01/2016 09:09:05 PM 958 Views
And yet I'm being told I'm the one acting offended darius_sedai - 02/01/2016 01:15:15 AM 831 Views
See, this is the crap I'm talking about. TyrReborn - 01/01/2016 06:20:16 PM 941 Views
Re: See, this is the crap I'm talking about. Sidious - 01/01/2016 07:25:38 PM 1003 Views
Okay, Mark, all kidding and stuff aside, you're being the asshole, here. Cannoli - 02/01/2016 03:49:08 AM 1033 Views
Okay... Sidious - 02/01/2016 04:50:24 AM 990 Views
About insults... fionwe1987 - 02/01/2016 05:04:47 AM 935 Views
I don't know where to even respond about all this! darius_sedai - 02/01/2016 07:39:43 PM 894 Views
Re: I don't know where to even respond about all this! Sidious - 03/01/2016 10:39:10 AM 938 Views
LOL ... Love it *NM* darius_sedai - 03/01/2016 04:17:02 PM 502 Views
Re: Okay... Cannoli - 02/01/2016 12:55:37 PM 1211 Views
Um, I think you are going a bit far with your assumptions darius_sedai - 01/01/2016 07:35:23 PM 908 Views
Cannoli's the one who got offended. fionwe1987 - 31/12/2015 09:23:45 PM 912 Views
Yeah, because I was talking about the books, and then you three started talking about me. Cannoli - 02/01/2016 03:55:23 AM 932 Views
Re: Yeah, because I was talking about the books, and then you three started talking about me. fionwe1987 - 02/01/2016 04:56:36 AM 910 Views
Re: You can dislike Cannoli, you can claim his arguments are biased... Sidious - 01/01/2016 08:41:18 AM 937 Views
Right? Hell, I was semi-mocking YOU for even bothering to get into it with Cannoli! *NM* darius_sedai - 01/01/2016 05:20:58 PM 470 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones fionwe1987 - 29/12/2015 02:13:32 PM 941 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones Cannoli - 30/12/2015 11:50:13 AM 1200 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones fionwe1987 - 30/12/2015 05:07:09 PM 1048 Views
My admittedly scratch memory gban007 - 31/12/2015 08:32:51 AM 924 Views
Re: My admittedly scratch memory fionwe1987 - 31/12/2015 08:47:58 AM 1002 Views
Thanks gban007 - 01/01/2016 06:14:45 AM 922 Views
One thing... fionwe1987 - 01/01/2016 06:42:10 AM 874 Views
Re: One thing... Sidious - 01/01/2016 08:49:00 AM 866 Views
Re: One thing... fionwe1987 - 01/01/2016 01:40:21 PM 928 Views
We need a term for stuff like that. I nominate "pulling a Brandon" because "BS" is so common. Cannoli - 02/01/2016 02:13:19 AM 913 Views
Interesting gban007 - 01/01/2016 09:18:43 AM 881 Views
Re: Interesting darius_sedai - 01/01/2016 05:29:38 PM 935 Views
Re: Interesting gban007 - 01/01/2016 06:50:26 PM 837 Views
Or perhaps a mixed circle could figure it out darius_sedai - 01/01/2016 07:40:02 PM 855 Views
Maybe it's like a broken bone? gban007 - 01/01/2016 09:10:26 PM 901 Views
Re: Maybe it's like a broken bone? darius_sedai - 02/01/2016 01:13:05 AM 908 Views
Re: My admittedly scratch memory Cannoli - 02/01/2016 02:10:44 AM 1113 Views
Here we go with the selective criticisms again... fionwe1987 - 02/01/2016 04:23:47 AM 992 Views
It's not selective to point out legitimate differences in circumstances. Cannoli - 02/01/2016 12:25:07 PM 1170 Views
not true, the Sul'dam's mission was to capture or kill as many marath'damane as they could darius_sedai - 02/01/2016 08:49:28 PM 875 Views
How are they supposed to do that without a'dam? Cannoli - 04/01/2016 01:45:52 AM 1011 Views
enemy combatant in an active hot zone darius_sedai - 04/01/2016 03:34:15 AM 895 Views
Only if they were germane to the issue... fionwe1987 - 03/01/2016 09:32:22 AM 851 Views
Timing of the creation of the three oaths gban007 - 03/01/2016 08:22:12 PM 886 Views
Re: Timing of the creation of the three oaths darius_sedai - 03/01/2016 08:56:35 PM 1050 Views
Cheers gban007 - 03/01/2016 09:50:41 PM 823 Views
Re: Cheers darius_sedai - 03/01/2016 10:35:34 PM 983 Views
Re: Only if they were germane to the issue... Cannoli - 04/01/2016 07:15:58 AM 906 Views
Q.E.D. fionwe1987 - 04/01/2016 12:29:58 PM 1226 Views
Re: Q.E.D. Sidious - 04/01/2016 02:41:19 PM 1127 Views
Interesting... fionwe1987 - 28/12/2015 02:31:33 PM 959 Views
Re Perrin gban007 - 29/12/2015 07:24:41 AM 1039 Views
Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? Cannoli - 04/01/2016 08:26:18 AM 1178 Views
Re: Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? kHz1000 - 04/01/2016 01:44:53 PM 994 Views
Re: Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? Cannoli - 07/01/2016 12:24:28 AM 1246 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions Morning - 18/01/2016 04:40:03 PM 772 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions Morning - 18/01/2016 04:44:10 PM 756 Views
Overrated characters Morning - 06/02/2016 04:24:55 PM 782 Views
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