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Re: Oh, puh-lease. Cannoli Send a noteboard - 03/10/2009 04:52:37 PM
She knows how to hunt the BA,
Which would make her something like the resident expert on the subject, no? What experience does Birgitte have to gainsay her?

and she knows things never went well when they rushed into a situation before.
You mean when they rushed into the Panarch's Palace with only two channelers against what could have been all 11 and one of the Forsaken hanging around? And won handily? Or the time they took every precaution and laid low in Tear, only to be captured? Or how they went with a full escort of Kinswomen and soldiers in Ebou Dar to the stash, lost most of the soldiers, some Kinswomen and only snared one Black sister, who was silenced shortly afterward? Do think Elayne isn't conscious of the fact that bringing others into her BA hunts tends to get them killed or else compromised to betray her?

Regardless of whether the new group was there to be observed or not, Elayne and co. would have had no way of knowing they weren't going into a house stacked full of BA just from Hark's observations and Jaem's statement that all the lights were out but one. Elayne knows better than almost anyone else that if you run into a dangerous situation on one piece of information (which you yourself said even the sneakiest of men hadn't the faintest chance of safely obtaining), you risk everything.
And it was worth the risk. The death of Vandene was only a scheduling technicality and Sareitha was not much of a loss, to catch two Blacks, not to mention exposing and eliminating the traitor in their ranks. The biggest problem with Elayne herself being risked is her effect on Rand and the loss of her children. Since we know that THAT won't happen, no biggie. The only other problem you cite is the possible danger. What is YOUR solution to "a house stacked full of BA"? Leave them alone rather than risk the precious Aes Sedai? Can we infer general cowardice in addition to tactical blindness as reasons against women generals from your responses?

I am NOT going to type a novel like you did,
Translation: "I don't have as many valid arguments" :P

and you're free to disagree, but I think her actions there were ridiculous. With all the speculation you put into your post, answer me this: how exactly does a noble fulfill her duty to her people by getting herself caught by some of the evillest wenches around and then relying on her (idiotic- obv, because she's female) warder to know exactly how to get her back w/o killing her whole army that she needed to keep the city and her people from an idiot like Arymilla? Having healthy babies is NOT the same thing as being free and safe while having them.
One fight at a time. Get Elayne back with the bajillion channelers in the Palace. As it turns out, getting her back was the key to winning the battle. In any event, what is she supposed to do? Hold off on doing anything on the off-chance she might get captured? Ask her sisters to risk their lives, while she cannot risk being captured? If getting rid of the Black sisters costs Elayne the throne, that's the way it would have to be. The Shadow out-ranks a political rival as a priority. No matter how inept Arymila's rule, it's better to keep the Shadow out.

Yes there were difficulties in whom to trust, but sheesh.
Cannoli
"Sometimes unhinged, sometimes unfair, always entertaining"
- The Crownless

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Deus Vult!
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Are women really bad generals? - 01/10/2009 07:05:03 PM 1541 Views
I think that all we can conclude from this... - 01/10/2009 07:39:49 PM 835 Views
No. - 01/10/2009 07:41:35 PM 993 Views
Or RJ just loves stacking ridiculously unfavourable odds against the male Forsaken generals... - 01/10/2009 08:40:47 PM 1064 Views
Lol... too true - 01/10/2009 09:32:29 PM 955 Views
And you guys whine about the lameness of RJ's villains? - 01/10/2009 09:41:54 PM 974 Views
I still haven't seen proof of Demandred or Ishamael's "brilliance". - 01/10/2009 09:56:41 PM 800 Views
Ishamael's destroyed Civilization twice - 02/10/2009 04:25:37 AM 774 Views
Re: Ishamael's destroyed Civilization twice - 02/10/2009 03:48:13 PM 698 Views
but you are difficult to please - 02/10/2009 05:10:13 AM 744 Views
Re: but you are difficult to please - 02/10/2009 03:46:56 PM 700 Views
Re: but you are difficult to please - 03/10/2009 06:17:21 AM 700 Views
But they are lame... they've done minimal damage to the Light - 02/10/2009 05:06:05 AM 699 Views
You can't have it both ways.... - 02/10/2009 06:47:21 AM 787 Views
Why not? - 02/10/2009 08:45:35 AM 743 Views
Re: Why not? - 02/10/2009 04:27:00 PM 644 Views
Re: Why not? - 03/10/2009 06:34:16 AM 765 Views
Re: Why not? - 03/10/2009 07:40:16 AM 707 Views
Re: Why not? - 03/10/2009 05:07:51 PM 678 Views
Yeah - 01/10/2009 09:57:01 PM 734 Views
Re: Yeah - 01/10/2009 10:40:28 PM 769 Views
I thought the same in the past... - 02/10/2009 07:01:18 AM 742 Views
Gah! Hate! - 02/10/2009 04:11:49 PM 753 Views
Ah, come on... - 02/10/2009 04:41:37 PM 725 Views
No no, I was just being pouty that I haven't read the new stuff yet. - 02/10/2009 05:01:15 PM 741 Views
Yeah, I can understand that! - 03/10/2009 12:23:25 PM 590 Views
Unless... - 01/10/2009 10:49:55 PM 798 Views
Re: Unless... - 02/10/2009 05:07:14 AM 827 Views
Well, it's entirely hypothetical, - 02/10/2009 06:31:32 AM 708 Views
Re: Or RJ just loves stacking ridiculously unfavourable odds against the male Forsaken generals... - 01/10/2009 09:51:30 PM 822 Views
What about Mat and Ituralde? - 02/10/2009 04:28:49 AM 774 Views
Re: What about Mat and Ituralde? - 02/10/2009 03:52:24 PM 710 Views
Good points! Also, these "generals" haven't actually fielded any troops - 01/10/2009 11:23:40 PM 699 Views
Further... - 02/10/2009 12:14:44 AM 737 Views
But as individuals they are meant to be deadly too - 02/10/2009 05:09:21 AM 694 Views
Just one point ^_^ - 03/10/2009 12:51:50 AM 719 Views
nope - 01/10/2009 08:06:57 PM 827 Views
Re: nope - 01/10/2009 09:32:38 PM 920 Views
Tylee Kirgan, Birgitte, and one other, Egeanin - 01/10/2009 09:47:00 PM 1129 Views
Birgitte's not a soldier though. - 01/10/2009 10:10:50 PM 722 Views
She says she's not, but so does Mat. - 01/10/2009 10:34:04 PM 635 Views
Mat's not a soldier, either - he's a general - 01/10/2009 10:51:29 PM 774 Views
Right, which was what we were discussing at first. - 02/10/2009 04:13:43 PM 718 Views
Yeah, I'm supporting your point about them both being generals - 02/10/2009 06:10:31 PM 729 Views
true, but she does pretty good - 02/10/2009 01:06:03 AM 772 Views
Oooh I forgot she's in charge of Elayne's lady guards. - 02/10/2009 03:22:57 AM 657 Views
Egeanin or Leilwin - 01/10/2009 10:35:53 PM 852 Views
A ship captain is like a calvary general - 02/10/2009 01:24:37 AM 706 Views
Right. - 02/10/2009 01:36:59 AM 713 Views
Well said. (And its short and to the point.) - 02/10/2009 03:54:23 AM 826 Views
Birgitte is too cautious to be better than an adequate tactician. - 02/10/2009 04:22:45 AM 755 Views
Isn't this more of an outgrowth or her respective specialty? - 07/10/2009 08:40:46 PM 682 Views
My opinion - 02/10/2009 01:30:12 AM 1122 Views
That's a poor excuse - 02/10/2009 11:59:42 AM 661 Views
That's a poor argument - 02/10/2009 04:02:53 PM 885 Views
Re: That's a poor argument - 03/10/2009 04:26:55 AM 745 Views
I disagree - 02/10/2009 04:26:28 PM 759 Views
Re: I disagree - 02/10/2009 08:31:29 PM 969 Views
Oh, puh-lease. - 02/10/2009 09:09:30 PM 906 Views
Re: Oh, puh-lease. - 03/10/2009 04:52:37 PM 727 Views
Re: Oh, puh-lease. - 03/10/2009 08:26:27 PM 619 Views
Re: Oh, puh-lease. - 05/10/2009 05:08:27 PM 3173 Views
I always know I've out-argued an idiot when they fall back on the tired old "RJ wanted it that way" - 06/10/2009 04:42:11 AM 768 Views
um - 08/10/2009 07:36:52 PM 1012 Views
Monday morning quarterbacking at its worst - 04/10/2009 07:28:36 AM 816 Views
Men and football. - 05/10/2009 04:49:35 PM 736 Views
It's the only thing men are allowed to do in Randland - 02/10/2009 03:09:19 AM 751 Views
My thoughts - 02/10/2009 03:12:46 PM 674 Views
.... - 04/10/2009 03:38:44 AM 669 Views

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