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Re: Who performs the worst atrocity in this book: Egwene or Rand? (A good Cannoli question) randfandom Send a noteboard - 13/11/2009 08:16:29 PM
Everyone here has noted Rand's mass atrocity. Rand most likely killed dozens of Graendal's innocent pawns of Graendal when he balefired her palace. Rand did this to get rid of a necessary evil, and the people he killed were beyond saving anyway.
IMO, the only really bad thing Rand did was by burning them out of the pattern. Those people he killed will never have a chance to live again.


Actually RJ said that people killed by balefire do get reborn. Their souls are not taken out of the recycling bin. Balefire wipes out their last actions (in this case going back maybe an hour) and prevents the Dark One grabbing the soul at the point of death.

Since the people there had been reprogrammed by Graendel, Rand probably did them all a favor. They'll have a chance to be reborn free and not used as puppets.

However, Rand's action was a-moral. He knew that Ramshallan(?) was compelled by Graedel, but not whether or not she was still there. He killed these people without absolute positive proof that Graedel was there at the time of the strike. Luckily she was, but it could just as easily have been the other way.

It's a little like when we fight Al Qaida, the army bombs a civilian lodging because it has evidence that Bin Laden might be there. You don't know until after whether you murdered innocents for nothing or whether that action is justified even if you could prove the terrorists are there.

As for Egwene, she was perfectly justified, especially given her own experience as a damane, to do what she did, although I think she violated her vow that she follows the Three Oaths "in her heart" - for all she knew, the Seanchan came to collar, not kill, so by the Three Oaths she should not have used killing force.

randfandom
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Who performs the worst atrocity in this book: Egwene or Rand? (A good Cannoli question) - 13/11/2009 06:22:50 PM 2298 Views
Egwene also killed Aes Sedai who belonged to the shadow by the dozens - 13/11/2009 07:19:14 PM 994 Views
Re: Egwene also killed Aes Sedai who belonged to the shadow by the dozens - 13/11/2009 07:25:14 PM 933 Views
Forcible turning is not the only method - 13/11/2009 08:28:08 PM 1045 Views
But... - 13/11/2009 08:43:53 PM 1055 Views
The point is - 13/11/2009 11:00:58 PM 792 Views
They were tried. *NM* - 14/11/2009 12:23:45 AM 385 Views
Mock trials - 14/11/2009 08:06:14 AM 890 Views
Proof? - 14/11/2009 09:09:14 AM 826 Views
That's the impression I got from Sheriam's 'trial' - 14/11/2009 09:44:09 AM 891 Views
But... - 14/11/2009 06:55:54 PM 909 Views
And if Verin had been caught, she would have deserved death. - 13/11/2009 11:55:13 PM 988 Views
Ordinarily, I would disagree... - 14/11/2009 04:20:28 AM 1024 Views
Re: Ordinarily, I would disagree... - 14/11/2009 08:04:37 AM 935 Views
They had trials. No mention of them presenting such evidence. *NM* - 13/11/2009 11:54:23 PM 397 Views
Forced turnings should be killed too - 15/11/2009 07:06:43 AM 853 Views
Sad but true - 07/12/2009 05:05:08 PM 814 Views
Based on those two actions... - 13/11/2009 08:01:32 PM 1003 Views
How was she going to protect the Tower and occupants then? - 13/11/2009 08:02:31 PM 916 Views
There is a difference between collateral damage and targeting your own people! *NM* - 13/11/2009 11:56:10 PM 417 Views
She did not target her own people... - 14/11/2009 12:39:14 AM 897 Views
You seem to be contradicting yourself here - 14/11/2009 07:52:07 AM 911 Views
Because they were indistinct specks high in the sky? *NM* - 14/11/2009 09:11:15 AM 394 Views
Considering the power she had in her hands - 14/11/2009 09:52:10 AM 1212 Views
That's ridiculous... - 14/11/2009 07:07:11 PM 947 Views
Re: That's ridiculous... - 14/11/2009 07:21:44 PM 891 Views
typical cannoli double speak, she wasn't targeting her own people - 14/11/2009 01:46:10 AM 2472 Views
Nothing wrong with that. - 14/11/2009 08:11:15 AM 945 Views
She does have first hand experience - 14/11/2009 07:52:20 PM 952 Views
Dozens of dark sisters together...trapped like rats... - 18/11/2009 12:29:19 AM 859 Views
Re: Who performs the worst atrocity in this book: Egwene or Rand? (A good Cannoli question) - 13/11/2009 08:16:29 PM 909 Views
Neither is an atrocity... - 13/11/2009 08:17:08 PM 1129 Views
this ^ *NM* - 13/11/2009 08:34:10 PM 354 Views
Re: Neither is an atrocity... - 13/11/2009 08:59:30 PM 918 Views
Bull Sh!t! - 13/11/2009 09:08:00 PM 979 Views
Come on now... - 13/11/2009 09:13:50 PM 897 Views
Not outraged on their behalf... - 13/11/2009 09:26:11 PM 892 Views
Re: Not outraged on their behalf... - 13/11/2009 09:56:01 PM 798 Views
Re: Not outraged on their behalf... - 13/11/2009 10:08:06 PM 828 Views
Re: Not outraged on their behalf... - 13/11/2009 10:37:04 PM 880 Views
- 13/11/2009 10:45:57 PM 809 Views
Re: - 13/11/2009 11:16:58 PM 885 Views
Re: - 14/11/2009 12:34:49 AM 771 Views
Re: - 14/11/2009 01:46:51 AM 844 Views
Yes your argument is very much Bull Sh!t - 13/11/2009 09:15:17 PM 954 Views
So... - 13/11/2009 09:27:11 PM 896 Views
Re: So... - 13/11/2009 10:07:15 PM 795 Views
Not at all... - 13/11/2009 10:09:43 PM 819 Views
Re: Not at all... - 13/11/2009 10:54:14 PM 808 Views
Re: Not at all... - 14/11/2009 12:36:36 AM 807 Views
Break out the inflatable balloon swords and have at it already! - 14/11/2009 02:14:47 AM 837 Views
Rand. - 13/11/2009 09:17:14 PM 962 Views
Re: Rand. - 13/11/2009 10:56:04 PM 1103 Views
But that is not her choice to make. She has NO right to decide that for anyone. *NM* - 13/11/2009 11:57:03 PM 407 Views
No, she had no right to make that choice - 14/11/2009 03:54:35 AM 779 Views
Yes, it was her choice to make, and she is now responsible for the consequences. - 16/11/2009 06:24:46 PM 1236 Views
Its the difference between - 14/11/2009 02:59:42 AM 849 Views
Cannoli mentioned already - after balefire you can live again - 20/11/2009 03:38:06 AM 784 Views

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