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Re: 21 levels is largely a myth DomA Send a noteboard - 20/11/2009 01:51:17 PM
I think that at one time there may have been the infamous 21 levels list - but I think it was the 'old' list that Sanderson references.

The reality is that it's more of a continuous scale than a fixed number of levels.


Actually, it's not a myth. I asked Brandon last August and he confirmed RJ used 21 levels for women.

He said "few" women were stronger than Nynaeve. He could not answer specific questions because "the list" is with documents regarding the bell curve, the total # of channelers and how many can be of which strength etc. and he had not more than looked at that stuff (he gave the impression it's not a topic he's too interested in). He did not even remember (at the time) if the Forsaken were included or if only third Age women were distributed on 21 levels (he seemed under the impression Nynaeve was on the top level).


To write he rather had used RJ's big "quick guides", two documents listing not only the level for every woman and man, but all sort of details like weaves he has established in the series channeller X know, and which he had determined she doesn't know (to avoid contitnuity errors - a sister with poor healing skills suddenly having average or better etc.), the stuff not listed on there he still had room to make up as he went along. Also the deference relationships already established in the series are extended in that guide (for people who had not interacted before, RJ used the level numbers to determine it). For younger channellers, the QG also stated their current level and the level they would reach and stuff like that.

RJ kept that stuff current to write, for more details he had to go to Maria and his characters' notes. The "list", bell curve etc. were to create characters and keep it consistent with his strength distribution, the "guides" were the continuity tools when writing.

Another thing Brandon confirmed in that brief discussion while he was setting up his laptop to show the few people who remained behind after the signing some WoK concept art is that RJ indeed did not compare strength between men and women (for the usual reasons RJ told us, Brandon confirmed). He kept two separate lists and two separate "quick guides". He did not remember how many levels the men had. The male document was less for hierarchy (like the AS notes) and more for continuity - who knows what etc.


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Female Forsaken strength : a new post - 19/11/2009 04:12:35 PM 1992 Views
Except... - 19/11/2009 04:26:32 PM 1008 Views
There's no evidence for that - 19/11/2009 04:31:17 PM 983 Views
It's common sense - 19/11/2009 04:40:01 PM 895 Views
No, it's based on absolutely nothing - 19/11/2009 04:50:30 PM 1032 Views
If you agree that there are stronger damane than Alivia... - 19/11/2009 05:00:05 PM 884 Views
I didn't say that - 19/11/2009 05:07:33 PM 939 Views
Well, I think you are wrong... - 19/11/2009 05:35:27 PM 919 Views
Glad to have you back. Now for the arguments to start! - 19/11/2009 04:29:01 PM 1056 Views
Hmm... - 19/11/2009 04:47:12 PM 1055 Views
Actually, you are the one placing Lanfear immensely high, my list reduced the strength difference... - 19/11/2009 05:05:18 PM 1135 Views
But I'm not - 19/11/2009 05:17:05 PM 1014 Views
Let me ask you this... - 19/11/2009 10:13:12 PM 1066 Views
Very good point *NM* - 20/11/2009 01:38:55 AM 464 Views
One possibility - 20/11/2009 03:18:55 AM 985 Views
All assumption - 20/11/2009 04:11:20 AM 950 Views
Why introduce that concept, if it is just of academic importance? - 20/11/2009 07:41:54 AM 876 Views
You don't know the significance of it at all - 20/11/2009 03:14:46 PM 1015 Views
Why? - 20/11/2009 03:17:51 PM 1545 Views
Re: Why? - 20/11/2009 04:30:50 PM 913 Views
How can you argue in such a way and still keep a straight face (presumably)... - 20/11/2009 05:07:39 PM 903 Views
Re: How can you argue in such a way and still keep a straight face (presumably)... - 21/11/2009 10:55:47 AM 912 Views
Is Graendal the only Forsaken NOT to overstate her own ability then? - 21/11/2009 01:53:28 PM 1026 Views
Probably not in this case - 21/11/2009 11:34:25 PM 896 Views
Your rankings hinge ENTIRELY on whether you have Graendal correctly placed. - 20/11/2009 03:24:22 PM 921 Views
Yeah... entirely - 20/11/2009 04:33:45 PM 874 Views
Okay, "entirely" was a bad choice of word. - 20/11/2009 09:57:52 PM 901 Views
Re: Okay, "entirely" was a bad choice of word. - 21/11/2009 10:48:16 AM 991 Views
Re: Let me ask you this... - 23/12/2009 04:30:27 PM 941 Views
*correction*Re: Let me ask you this... - 23/12/2009 04:32:02 PM 906 Views
my comments w/ edit - 19/11/2009 04:37:27 PM 974 Views
Re: my comments w/ edit - 19/11/2009 04:54:30 PM 1057 Views
Re: my comments w/ edit - 23/12/2009 04:42:15 PM 836 Views
What ever happened to all teh info from wotmania? Especially the FAQs? *NM* - 19/11/2009 05:01:45 PM 613 Views
http://13depository.blogspot.com/ *NM* - 19/11/2009 05:31:01 PM 481 Views
Re: Female Forsaken strength : a new post - 19/11/2009 05:39:10 PM 991 Views
Re: Female Forsaken strength : a new post -- What about Dexterity?? - 19/11/2009 06:44:31 PM 1005 Views
This perfectly matches my understanding of the situation. - 19/11/2009 07:06:31 PM 861 Views
Agreed! This make more sense than the previous list *NM* - 20/11/2009 12:07:37 AM 519 Views
Too many levels - 20/11/2009 01:48:24 AM 979 Views
You are completely right about too many levels. - 20/11/2009 04:17:17 AM 869 Views
21 levels is largely a myth - 20/11/2009 04:27:27 AM 909 Views
Re: 21 levels is largely a myth - 20/11/2009 01:51:17 PM 1004 Views
Thanks for the post. Interesting stuff there. *NM* - 20/11/2009 03:14:12 PM 444 Views
That's good to know. - 20/11/2009 07:56:41 PM 857 Views
I have to disagree for a couple of reasons. - 20/11/2009 04:14:40 AM 1027 Views
Talaan is not stronger than Nynaeve - 28/11/2009 08:27:22 PM 1125 Views
Re: Talaan is not stronger than Nynaeve - 28/11/2009 10:05:15 PM 1131 Views
Talaan has be channeling for 6 or 7 years - 28/11/2009 10:56:12 PM 904 Views
Re: I have to disagree for a couple of reasons. - 30/12/2009 12:37:40 AM 1341 Views
Agree with nearly all - 20/11/2009 04:43:47 AM 848 Views
more hopefully to come - 20/11/2009 08:15:00 PM 829 Views
Thanks KCF, that's a great question to ask. - 20/11/2009 08:28:32 PM 1085 Views
A little more evidence that Nynaeve is stronger than Semirhage - 29/11/2009 12:12:37 AM 931 Views
I agree that Graendal is the 2nd most powerful woman Forsaken - 29/11/2009 04:07:00 PM 840 Views
It's possible - 30/11/2009 08:23:28 PM 892 Views
Re: It's possible - 01/12/2009 06:18:56 PM 960 Views

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