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You can already drive a truck through the oaths. Does this one additional tiny gap really matter? Nameless Ashaman Send a noteboard - 07/12/2009 04:07:16 AM
This really is a massive gap in the Oath. It's not really used in the books that way but it could be. A Sister could lie freely as long as she thought she was being sarcastic. How the person she is talking to takes it is secondary.


I mean, c'mon... here's a typical excange between a normal person and an AS (I believe there are at least two exchanges almost exactly like this in the series):

Q: "What is your name?"
A: "You may call me Alyce."

Not technically a lie, since the AS is not saying her name is Alyce, but the intent is clearly a lie.

The oaths are next to worthless. Especially since everyone in the Westlands seems to be aware that AS do this so no one ever believes them anyway.
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Cadsuane lies! darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 06:10:41 PM 2148 Views
Re: Cadsuane lies! joepo - 06/12/2009 06:18:39 PM 1356 Views
Sarcasm is one thing Ryan - 06/12/2009 06:43:12 PM 1072 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 06:51:27 PM 1029 Views
RJ has said they're allowed to be sarcastic TheCrownless - 06/12/2009 07:07:32 PM 983 Views
How does that jive with the Oaths? darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:13:21 PM 1034 Views
Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying *NM* Deadsy - 06/12/2009 07:53:31 PM 475 Views
Re: Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying DomA - 06/12/2009 08:03:36 PM 1077 Views
Yes, she did state it. Deadsy - 06/12/2009 08:57:47 PM 1005 Views
Re: Yes, she did state it. DomA - 07/12/2009 01:39:07 AM 993 Views
Re: How does that jive with the Oaths? DomA - 06/12/2009 07:57:10 PM 930 Views
The Oaths focus on INTENT beetnemesis - 06/12/2009 10:01:27 PM 986 Views
None of what you describe is an Oath ingrained into your bones. darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 01:52:49 AM 856 Views
It's ENTIRELY about self-rationalization Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 03:59:00 AM 836 Views
^This. *NM* Nate - 07/12/2009 08:23:27 AM 465 Views
Because it isn't a lie DomA - 06/12/2009 07:44:29 PM 996 Views
I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:08:15 PM 978 Views
Verin didn't say it sarcastically. Darth_Katie - 06/12/2009 08:11:31 PM 822 Views
Really? I never would have known that without you darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:39:56 PM 913 Views
Re: I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic DomA - 06/12/2009 08:35:23 PM 1019 Views
Quote for you darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:42:52 PM 948 Views
Re: Quote for you DomA - 07/12/2009 01:30:57 AM 875 Views
The sarcasm was for him repeating himself to her. The "remember" is the part she's refering to. Onarishma - 07/12/2009 10:15:06 AM 790 Views
That's why I think this example of sarcasm works as opposed to Cadsuane who makes a false statement darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 03:17:52 PM 860 Views
sarcasm is sarcasm. In both instances their is technically a lie. Onarishma - 07/12/2009 11:28:02 PM 807 Views
Not at all the case darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 11:58:42 PM 898 Views
Do you really believe he waited till the last minute to tell Seonid? Onarishma - 14/12/2009 01:32:37 PM 973 Views
That's the whole point of her being able to say what she did! darius_sedai - 14/12/2009 04:05:24 PM 751 Views
What about the Sheriam thing? Legolas - 07/12/2009 01:49:32 PM 888 Views
Re: What about the Sheriam thing? DomA - 07/12/2009 02:15:25 PM 763 Views
But surely an Aes Sedai can answer a question she hasn't fully heard yet. Legolas - 07/12/2009 03:06:34 PM 1001 Views
I actually don't take it as proof. Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 09:00:58 PM 823 Views
Yeah, I thought about that possibility too... Legolas - 07/12/2009 10:21:16 PM 1118 Views
Sarcasm Sidious - 06/12/2009 07:14:47 PM 1020 Views
It's obviously meant to be sarcasm, I just don't like darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:18:40 PM 818 Views
Here is what RJ said about it Etzel - 06/12/2009 07:41:18 PM 976 Views
Well I have to say I think RJ made the wrong call with this one *NM* darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:43:47 PM 421 Views
Like my momma used to say... Mat_Cauthon33 - 06/12/2009 11:27:22 PM 858 Views
Your momma is a wise woman. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 07/12/2009 03:14:27 PM 768 Views
Agreed. johnnymack - 07/12/2009 01:45:39 AM 772 Views
You can already drive a truck through the oaths. Does this one additional tiny gap really matter? Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 04:07:16 AM 813 Views
Alys (Moiraine alias) *NM* BlackAdder - 07/12/2009 05:13:18 AM 1128 Views
No, no it doesn't. johnnymack - 08/12/2009 03:31:11 PM 786 Views
Re: No, no it doesn't. Nameless Ashaman - 08/12/2009 04:41:42 PM 817 Views
what do you think a RL lie detector would tell in this case? redhand - 07/12/2009 12:27:07 PM 774 Views
in RL you would get warned by the investigator to cooperate AgentOrange - 07/12/2009 01:04:33 PM 795 Views
But how would the machine reading indicate? redhand - 07/12/2009 07:04:22 PM 803 Views
Usually you're s'possed to answer with a yes or no. It's easy to tell when you're evasive AgentOrange - 09/12/2009 10:46:58 PM 835 Views
Where's the problem? Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 04:18:40 PM 727 Views
It's in the way the Oath is worded darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 05:14:39 PM 790 Views
Re: It's in the way the Oath is worded Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 05:36:59 PM 807 Views
See the Cadsuane quote, but I'll give you another one darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 06:15:32 PM 1004 Views
PS You misread my original quote darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 11:00:56 PM 733 Views
You're so right. My fault. *NM* Shadowkiller - 10/12/2009 12:57:29 AM 718 Views
No worries! It a discussion forum, we're supposed to discuss darius_sedai - 10/12/2009 12:58:39 AM 815 Views
Re: PS You misread my original quote taura-tierno - 28/12/2009 10:04:51 PM 917 Views
Lies, untruths, sarcasm, and meaning Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 07:46:25 PM 865 Views
We are starting understand each other darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 10:09:41 PM 829 Views
Re: We are starting understand each other Shadowkiller - 10/12/2009 01:03:08 AM 770 Views
Completely agree darius_sedai - 10/12/2009 01:23:36 AM 822 Views
Why do you think she *had* noticed the Aiel? *NM* Lord Haart - 14/12/2009 02:02:24 PM 356 Views
because she arrived with Rand and dozens of Maidens, darius_sedai - 15/12/2009 01:02:43 AM 763 Views
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