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I actually don't take it as proof. Nameless Ashaman Send a noteboard - 07/12/2009 09:00:58 PM
I think I agree with you, on the whole, but the incident with Sheriam raises questions about that. She's panicked, defending herself against allegations of being Black, and answers "Of course not" to Egwene's question whether she has red hair before even realizing what the question is. She doesn't have any intent to deny that particular question, thinks she's denying something else instead, so you would think it should've been possible to say that even with the First Oath. But no, Egwene and the Hall take it as very strong evidence that she's Black, as if a sister bound to the Oaths would've been unable to give that answer under those circumstances.


My belief is that it is perfectly possible that a non-BA sister could have succumbed to the same trick and therefore inadverdantly spoken a lie. Sure, the rebel hall took it as absolute proof of Sheriam being BA, but AS have always been very good at jumping to spurious conclusions based on flimsy or misinterpreted evidence.

Now in this case, Sheriam pretty much gave up because she knew that even if she could convince anyone that her slip-up was accidental and didn't violate the oaths, she still would have been required to re-swear on the oath rod and provide more definite proof, which she couldn't do. The gig was up regardless and she knew it.

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Cadsuane lies! darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 06:10:41 PM 2371 Views
Re: Cadsuane lies! joepo - 06/12/2009 06:18:39 PM 1582 Views
Sarcasm is one thing Ryan - 06/12/2009 06:43:12 PM 1266 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 06:51:27 PM 1234 Views
RJ has said they're allowed to be sarcastic TheCrownless - 06/12/2009 07:07:32 PM 1179 Views
How does that jive with the Oaths? darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:13:21 PM 1235 Views
Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying *NM* Deadsy - 06/12/2009 07:53:31 PM 573 Views
Re: Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying DomA - 06/12/2009 08:03:36 PM 1300 Views
Yes, she did state it. Deadsy - 06/12/2009 08:57:47 PM 1200 Views
Re: Yes, she did state it. DomA - 07/12/2009 01:39:07 AM 1200 Views
Re: How does that jive with the Oaths? DomA - 06/12/2009 07:57:10 PM 1162 Views
The Oaths focus on INTENT beetnemesis - 06/12/2009 10:01:27 PM 1214 Views
None of what you describe is an Oath ingrained into your bones. darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 01:52:49 AM 1052 Views
It's ENTIRELY about self-rationalization Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 03:59:00 AM 1016 Views
^This. *NM* Nate - 07/12/2009 08:23:27 AM 617 Views
Because it isn't a lie DomA - 06/12/2009 07:44:29 PM 1236 Views
I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:08:15 PM 1203 Views
Verin didn't say it sarcastically. Darth_Katie - 06/12/2009 08:11:31 PM 1006 Views
Really? I never would have known that without you darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:39:56 PM 1138 Views
Re: I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic DomA - 06/12/2009 08:35:23 PM 1227 Views
Quote for you darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:42:52 PM 1174 Views
Re: Quote for you DomA - 07/12/2009 01:30:57 AM 1086 Views
The sarcasm was for him repeating himself to her. The "remember" is the part she's refering to. Onarishma - 07/12/2009 10:15:06 AM 1001 Views
That's why I think this example of sarcasm works as opposed to Cadsuane who makes a false statement darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 03:17:52 PM 1070 Views
sarcasm is sarcasm. In both instances their is technically a lie. Onarishma - 07/12/2009 11:28:02 PM 1013 Views
Not at all the case darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 11:58:42 PM 1082 Views
Do you really believe he waited till the last minute to tell Seonid? Onarishma - 14/12/2009 01:32:37 PM 1180 Views
That's the whole point of her being able to say what she did! darius_sedai - 14/12/2009 04:05:24 PM 953 Views
What about the Sheriam thing? Legolas - 07/12/2009 01:49:32 PM 1095 Views
Re: What about the Sheriam thing? DomA - 07/12/2009 02:15:25 PM 962 Views
But surely an Aes Sedai can answer a question she hasn't fully heard yet. Legolas - 07/12/2009 03:06:34 PM 1207 Views
I actually don't take it as proof. Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 09:00:58 PM 1019 Views
Yeah, I thought about that possibility too... Legolas - 07/12/2009 10:21:16 PM 1315 Views
Sarcasm Sidious - 06/12/2009 07:14:47 PM 1239 Views
It's obviously meant to be sarcasm, I just don't like darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:18:40 PM 1039 Views
Here is what RJ said about it Etzel - 06/12/2009 07:41:18 PM 1201 Views
Well I have to say I think RJ made the wrong call with this one *NM* darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:43:47 PM 515 Views
Like my momma used to say... Mat_Cauthon33 - 06/12/2009 11:27:22 PM 1111 Views
Your momma is a wise woman. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 07/12/2009 03:14:27 PM 993 Views
Agreed. johnnymack - 07/12/2009 01:45:39 AM 998 Views
You can already drive a truck through the oaths. Does this one additional tiny gap really matter? Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 04:07:16 AM 1049 Views
Alys (Moiraine alias) *NM* BlackAdder - 07/12/2009 05:13:18 AM 1345 Views
No, no it doesn't. johnnymack - 08/12/2009 03:31:11 PM 998 Views
Re: No, no it doesn't. Nameless Ashaman - 08/12/2009 04:41:42 PM 1007 Views
what do you think a RL lie detector would tell in this case? redhand - 07/12/2009 12:27:07 PM 979 Views
in RL you would get warned by the investigator to cooperate AgentOrange - 07/12/2009 01:04:33 PM 1024 Views
But how would the machine reading indicate? redhand - 07/12/2009 07:04:22 PM 996 Views
Usually you're s'possed to answer with a yes or no. It's easy to tell when you're evasive AgentOrange - 09/12/2009 10:46:58 PM 1052 Views
Where's the problem? Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 04:18:40 PM 937 Views
It's in the way the Oath is worded darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 05:14:39 PM 1009 Views
Re: It's in the way the Oath is worded Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 05:36:59 PM 1034 Views
See the Cadsuane quote, but I'll give you another one darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 06:15:32 PM 1202 Views
PS You misread my original quote darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 11:00:56 PM 929 Views
You're so right. My fault. *NM* Shadowkiller - 10/12/2009 12:57:29 AM 972 Views
No worries! It a discussion forum, we're supposed to discuss darius_sedai - 10/12/2009 12:58:39 AM 1082 Views
Re: PS You misread my original quote taura-tierno - 28/12/2009 10:04:51 PM 1151 Views
Lies, untruths, sarcasm, and meaning Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 07:46:25 PM 1100 Views
We are starting understand each other darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 10:09:41 PM 1060 Views
Re: We are starting understand each other Shadowkiller - 10/12/2009 01:03:08 AM 973 Views
Completely agree darius_sedai - 10/12/2009 01:23:36 AM 1059 Views
Why do you think she *had* noticed the Aiel? *NM* Lord Haart - 14/12/2009 02:02:24 PM 442 Views
because she arrived with Rand and dozens of Maidens, darius_sedai - 15/12/2009 01:02:43 AM 961 Views
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