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Where's the problem? Shadowkiller Send a noteboard - 09/12/2009 04:18:40 PM
The explanation that an AS can lie if she couches it in sarcasm... this is suddenly much more than a mere loophole in the Oath, it's a pretty massive gap!


So you say "an AS can lie if she couches it in sarcasm." I'm not so sure. My sense is that if the AS was certain her sarcasm would be understood as such then there's no problem, and conversely if she was certain her sarcasm would be misinterpreted then she would be unable to say it.

Can you describe a hypothetical situation in which this ability to use sarcasm could be deliberately used as an ability to straight up lie?

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Cadsuane lies! darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 06:10:41 PM 2186 Views
Re: Cadsuane lies! joepo - 06/12/2009 06:18:39 PM 1403 Views
Sarcasm is one thing Ryan - 06/12/2009 06:43:12 PM 1109 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 06:51:27 PM 1055 Views
RJ has said they're allowed to be sarcastic TheCrownless - 06/12/2009 07:07:32 PM 1019 Views
How does that jive with the Oaths? darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:13:21 PM 1065 Views
Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying *NM* Deadsy - 06/12/2009 07:53:31 PM 494 Views
Re: Good point, but in that same book Tamra said that Gitara didn't say anything before dying DomA - 06/12/2009 08:03:36 PM 1115 Views
Yes, she did state it. Deadsy - 06/12/2009 08:57:47 PM 1035 Views
Re: Yes, she did state it. DomA - 07/12/2009 01:39:07 AM 1021 Views
Re: How does that jive with the Oaths? DomA - 06/12/2009 07:57:10 PM 964 Views
The Oaths focus on INTENT beetnemesis - 06/12/2009 10:01:27 PM 1016 Views
None of what you describe is an Oath ingrained into your bones. darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 01:52:49 AM 888 Views
It's ENTIRELY about self-rationalization Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 03:59:00 AM 870 Views
^This. *NM* Nate - 07/12/2009 08:23:27 AM 482 Views
Because it isn't a lie DomA - 06/12/2009 07:44:29 PM 1032 Views
I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:08:15 PM 1020 Views
Verin didn't say it sarcastically. Darth_Katie - 06/12/2009 08:11:31 PM 858 Views
Really? I never would have known that without you darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:39:56 PM 948 Views
Re: I understand this, I'm not arguing that an AS should not be able to be sarcastic DomA - 06/12/2009 08:35:23 PM 1051 Views
Quote for you darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 08:42:52 PM 983 Views
Re: Quote for you DomA - 07/12/2009 01:30:57 AM 904 Views
The sarcasm was for him repeating himself to her. The "remember" is the part she's refering to. Onarishma - 07/12/2009 10:15:06 AM 826 Views
That's why I think this example of sarcasm works as opposed to Cadsuane who makes a false statement darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 03:17:52 PM 892 Views
sarcasm is sarcasm. In both instances their is technically a lie. Onarishma - 07/12/2009 11:28:02 PM 843 Views
Not at all the case darius_sedai - 07/12/2009 11:58:42 PM 927 Views
Do you really believe he waited till the last minute to tell Seonid? Onarishma - 14/12/2009 01:32:37 PM 1002 Views
That's the whole point of her being able to say what she did! darius_sedai - 14/12/2009 04:05:24 PM 784 Views
What about the Sheriam thing? Legolas - 07/12/2009 01:49:32 PM 917 Views
Re: What about the Sheriam thing? DomA - 07/12/2009 02:15:25 PM 793 Views
But surely an Aes Sedai can answer a question she hasn't fully heard yet. Legolas - 07/12/2009 03:06:34 PM 1032 Views
I actually don't take it as proof. Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 09:00:58 PM 851 Views
Yeah, I thought about that possibility too... Legolas - 07/12/2009 10:21:16 PM 1143 Views
Sarcasm Sidious - 06/12/2009 07:14:47 PM 1054 Views
It's obviously meant to be sarcasm, I just don't like darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:18:40 PM 863 Views
Here is what RJ said about it Etzel - 06/12/2009 07:41:18 PM 1004 Views
Well I have to say I think RJ made the wrong call with this one *NM* darius_sedai - 06/12/2009 07:43:47 PM 434 Views
Like my momma used to say... Mat_Cauthon33 - 06/12/2009 11:27:22 PM 896 Views
Your momma is a wise woman. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 07/12/2009 03:14:27 PM 802 Views
Agreed. johnnymack - 07/12/2009 01:45:39 AM 813 Views
You can already drive a truck through the oaths. Does this one additional tiny gap really matter? Nameless Ashaman - 07/12/2009 04:07:16 AM 856 Views
Alys (Moiraine alias) *NM* BlackAdder - 07/12/2009 05:13:18 AM 1160 Views
No, no it doesn't. johnnymack - 08/12/2009 03:31:11 PM 815 Views
Re: No, no it doesn't. Nameless Ashaman - 08/12/2009 04:41:42 PM 846 Views
what do you think a RL lie detector would tell in this case? redhand - 07/12/2009 12:27:07 PM 798 Views
in RL you would get warned by the investigator to cooperate AgentOrange - 07/12/2009 01:04:33 PM 829 Views
But how would the machine reading indicate? redhand - 07/12/2009 07:04:22 PM 833 Views
Usually you're s'possed to answer with a yes or no. It's easy to tell when you're evasive AgentOrange - 09/12/2009 10:46:58 PM 868 Views
Where's the problem? Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 04:18:40 PM 763 Views
It's in the way the Oath is worded darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 05:14:39 PM 819 Views
Re: It's in the way the Oath is worded Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 05:36:59 PM 839 Views
See the Cadsuane quote, but I'll give you another one darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 06:15:32 PM 1037 Views
PS You misread my original quote darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 11:00:56 PM 760 Views
You're so right. My fault. *NM* Shadowkiller - 10/12/2009 12:57:29 AM 757 Views
No worries! It a discussion forum, we're supposed to discuss darius_sedai - 10/12/2009 12:58:39 AM 861 Views
Re: PS You misread my original quote taura-tierno - 28/12/2009 10:04:51 PM 958 Views
Lies, untruths, sarcasm, and meaning Shadowkiller - 09/12/2009 07:46:25 PM 901 Views
We are starting understand each other darius_sedai - 09/12/2009 10:09:41 PM 868 Views
Re: We are starting understand each other Shadowkiller - 10/12/2009 01:03:08 AM 806 Views
Completely agree darius_sedai - 10/12/2009 01:23:36 AM 851 Views
Why do you think she *had* noticed the Aiel? *NM* Lord Haart - 14/12/2009 02:02:24 PM 372 Views
because she arrived with Rand and dozens of Maidens, darius_sedai - 15/12/2009 01:02:43 AM 800 Views
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