Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 17/12/2009 07:26:55 PM
It shows that Moghedien is a step above Egwene alone, and this squares with my statement that Nynaeve not being stronger than two women out of the group of Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha Linked. This also accounts for Moghedien's reaction upon meeting Elayne and Nynaeve; Elayne was not near her full potential then, but Nynaeve was already close to Moghediens' strength - both were dangerous, but it was Nynaeve that Moghedien thought could cause more than some difficulty for Rahvin.
Rand, for example, has no chance against any of the Forsaken if they came against him in a Link - if only two Linked, he wouldn't be a match; especially since so many of the more aggressive males are close to him in strength. If Lanfear had Linked with another female, I think it would be another match not in his favor.
The closer in power you are to someone else, the less easy it is to easy Shield and dispose of them or neutralize their weaves (ie: overwhelming them). Egwene might not have a chance against Moghedien alone because Moghedien may simply be 20-25% stronger; a significant enough differentce that Moghedien could hold a Shield on Egwene without much effort while weaving a killing blow.
To put what Egwene is thinking in perspective, she has never fought to the death against a Forsaken - she doesn't really know that Moghedien is a coward, nor does she know Moghedien's combat capabilities. Moghedien is actually quite undeveloped in that area - she could have destroyed Nynaeve in a flash back in the Panarch's Palace, but instead she went for the least accurate means of defeating another channeler possible. This indicates something. Moghedien could gauge Nynaeve's strength; she already had earlier in the book. Instead of taking Nynaeve out in a surprise attack, she was beaten by her own lack of fighting capability. She didn't want to fight to the death - she wanted to capture someone in her web, and she in her turn, was captured. I think Egwene herself is quite capable of destroying Moghedien because she is not a coward, and has learned from her mistake - some threats must be killed when you have the chance, rather than captured or neutralized, because it isn't a game.
Rand, for example, has no chance against any of the Forsaken if they came against him in a Link - if only two Linked, he wouldn't be a match; especially since so many of the more aggressive males are close to him in strength. If Lanfear had Linked with another female, I think it would be another match not in his favor.
The closer in power you are to someone else, the less easy it is to easy Shield and dispose of them or neutralize their weaves (ie: overwhelming them). Egwene might not have a chance against Moghedien alone because Moghedien may simply be 20-25% stronger; a significant enough differentce that Moghedien could hold a Shield on Egwene without much effort while weaving a killing blow.
To put what Egwene is thinking in perspective, she has never fought to the death against a Forsaken - she doesn't really know that Moghedien is a coward, nor does she know Moghedien's combat capabilities. Moghedien is actually quite undeveloped in that area - she could have destroyed Nynaeve in a flash back in the Panarch's Palace, but instead she went for the least accurate means of defeating another channeler possible. This indicates something. Moghedien could gauge Nynaeve's strength; she already had earlier in the book. Instead of taking Nynaeve out in a surprise attack, she was beaten by her own lack of fighting capability. She didn't want to fight to the death - she wanted to capture someone in her web, and she in her turn, was captured. I think Egwene herself is quite capable of destroying Moghedien because she is not a coward, and has learned from her mistake - some threats must be killed when you have the chance, rather than captured or neutralized, because it isn't a game.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
This message last edited by RugbyPlayingAshaman on 17/12/2009 at 07:35:10 PM
The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
- 17/12/2009 03:32:03 PM
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I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here...
- 17/12/2009 04:27:53 PM
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Re: I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here...
- 17/12/2009 05:05:18 PM
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Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
- 17/12/2009 04:52:56 PM
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Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more...
- 17/12/2009 04:57:17 PM
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Re: Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more...
- 17/12/2009 06:07:39 PM
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Moiraine at 45 strength is way too high. She can't be that high. *NM*
- 17/12/2009 07:44:50 PM
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why?
- 17/12/2009 07:57:37 PM
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Re: why?
- 17/12/2009 08:11:13 PM
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I don't think there is one scale you can put both men and women on is the point
- 17/12/2009 08:21:21 PM
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and yet RJ does
- 17/12/2009 08:27:39 PM
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Re: and yet RJ does
- 17/12/2009 09:49:20 PM
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Re: and yet RJ does
- 18/12/2009 04:20:16 AM
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No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it!
- 18/12/2009 05:08:04 PM
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Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it!
- 19/12/2009 11:53:24 AM
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Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it!
- 19/12/2009 05:12:47 PM
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Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
- 17/12/2009 05:07:28 PM
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Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
- 17/12/2009 06:24:12 PM
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Let's work with your figures...
- 17/12/2009 06:45:46 PM
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Re: Let's work with your figures...
- 17/12/2009 07:16:49 PM
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You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. *NM*
- 17/12/2009 07:50:25 PM
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Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake.
- 17/12/2009 07:59:13 PM
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Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake.
- 17/12/2009 08:14:01 PM
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Re: two women holding Nynaeve
- 17/12/2009 08:17:10 PM
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Re: two women holding Nynaeve
- 17/12/2009 08:19:34 PM
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I personally think Nynaeve gained strength slower than most because of her block.
- 17/12/2009 08:30:44 PM
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but we know as late as WH that she has not reached her full potential
- 17/12/2009 09:50:12 PM
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What? Where? *NM*
- 18/12/2009 04:22:36 AM
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I'll have to dig up the quote, apologies but I'm at work and don't have the books
- 18/12/2009 05:00:20 PM
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Gateway theory refutes this. The size of gateway is relevant to strength
- 17/12/2009 07:46:55 PM
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Re: Gateway theory refutes this. The size of gateway is relevant to strength
- 17/12/2009 07:55:38 PM
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What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to
- 17/12/2009 05:40:41 PM
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It means even Moghedien is vastly stronger than the average modern Aes Sedai...
- 17/12/2009 05:48:09 PM
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Re: What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to
- 17/12/2009 08:15:58 PM
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Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
- 17/12/2009 06:47:23 PM
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Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
- 17/12/2009 06:53:18 PM
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Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
- 17/12/2009 07:26:55 PM
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uhm.... yes she knows
- 17/12/2009 08:04:08 PM
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Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
- 17/12/2009 07:28:00 PM
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Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
- 17/12/2009 08:23:01 PM
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Ishamael told her that she would never be strong enough to face him
- 17/12/2009 09:52:47 PM
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And Ishamael was killed be a shepherd and Bel'al balefired by a "weak" Aes Sedai.
- 17/12/2009 10:33:41 PM
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How can we be certain Egwene was at full strength when she said that?
- 17/12/2009 07:58:39 PM
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Elayne says Egwene was at her full strength in TSR, and thus was stronger than she currently was.
- 17/12/2009 10:25:31 PM
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Elayne says Egwene was forced and was thus currently stronger
- 17/12/2009 10:51:28 PM
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Definitely TSR, because I re-read that book constantly - will try to find the section!
- 17/12/2009 11:23:20 PM
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Re: Definitely TSR, because I re-read that book constantly - will try to find the section!
- 17/12/2009 11:25:31 PM
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Didn't the glossary say that Cadsuane was not far behind Eg/El? *NM*
- 17/12/2009 08:05:32 PM
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This thread has achieved absolutely nothing. When people don't accept quotes, what's the use...
- 17/12/2009 10:22:45 PM
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But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk?
- 17/12/2009 11:13:40 PM
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I think they are secretly just trying to make Lanfear appear that much stronger
*NM*
- 17/12/2009 11:17:38 PM
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*NM*
- 17/12/2009 11:17:38 PM
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You also forget something.
- 17/12/2009 11:36:50 PM
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That has nothing to do with what I said...
- 18/12/2009 12:21:06 AM
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Re: That has nothing to do with what I said...
- 18/12/2009 01:28:53 PM
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Dude, prove it in a random sample, not in a skewed sample like "women who want to be Aes Sedai".
- 18/12/2009 05:43:22 PM
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Show me a random sample in the series that we can use *NM*
- 18/12/2009 06:45:08 PM
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I cannot. That's the point...
- 18/12/2009 08:33:38 PM
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The One Power Bell Curve's average strength is not 50, it is more like 15...
- 17/12/2009 11:41:48 PM
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Yes, Sidious' scale is a relative scale not an absolute one *NM*
- 18/12/2009 12:23:25 AM
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In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now?
- 18/12/2009 12:37:47 AM
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Re: In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now?
- 18/12/2009 12:47:52 AM
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What do you mean, relative scale?
- 18/12/2009 12:53:29 AM
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OK, I have no interest in OP Strength, but you comments about statistics and bell curve got me
- 18/12/2009 12:20:27 AM
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1 to 100 works perfectly well as a range...
- 18/12/2009 12:47:44 AM
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Here is an example with an absolute scale, converted to relative
- 18/12/2009 01:03:38 AM
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The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population!
- 18/12/2009 01:28:38 AM
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Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population!
- 18/12/2009 02:03:00 AM
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Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population!
- 18/12/2009 03:16:25 AM
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You're right, and that proves my point - here are the calculations and the evidence...
- 18/12/2009 07:51:26 AM
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Dude, read up on some statistics, then we'll continue this debate...
- 18/12/2009 06:05:26 PM
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Explain one thing to me...
- 18/12/2009 10:40:00 PM
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Who said she's stronger than two very strong AS? Silviana can shield her alone! *NM*
- 18/12/2009 11:01:01 PM
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Aviendha said so in FoH. It is a direct quote.
- 18/12/2009 11:04:21 PM
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which is also suspect
- 19/12/2009 12:04:14 AM
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OK, the Tower AS don't fall into a bell-curve, then.
- 18/12/2009 10:34:16 PM
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Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk?
- 18/12/2009 04:31:53 AM
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Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk?
- 18/12/2009 04:42:33 AM
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I've discussed this before...
- 18/12/2009 01:06:07 AM
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Re: I've discussed this before...
- 18/12/2009 04:37:30 AM
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Re: I've discussed this before...
- 18/12/2009 04:58:48 AM
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Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself...
- 18/12/2009 07:02:28 AM
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Why are you entertaining this?
- 18/12/2009 01:19:25 PM
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The other poster showed no proof that RJ's math was wrong. Read what he said again! *NM*
- 18/12/2009 06:09:49 PM
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Verin's circle matched Granedal dude. And average strength does not mean great strength.
- 18/12/2009 06:07:51 PM
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Re: Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself...
- 19/12/2009 12:46:18 AM
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I can't imagine it being about skill
- 19/12/2009 12:06:42 PM
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of course it's about skill
- 19/12/2009 05:22:45 PM
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Not it isn't!
- 19/12/2009 05:52:02 PM
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If she was only thinking about strength why then didn't she have a plan to add Sheriam
- 19/12/2009 07:09:08 PM
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