but you are the person quantifying the actual strength levels.
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 18/12/2009 12:09:08 AM
based on nothing other than you believing that Lanfear is more than 2x stronger than Elayne... there is no evidence that she is that much stronger. The 1-100 system plays no part in the text or in any quote I've ever seen from RJ.
In fact the best evidence we have of how much stronger she is than Egwene is Moiraine's estimation that Egwene and Aviendha combined could match Lanfear. This makes Lanfear less than 2x these women as neither is at 100% strength when this quote is made.
The next best thing we have is that it takes 3 AS (one very weak the others above average) to hold Semirahge's shield. And 2 to hold Egwene's. Again, making Egwene more than 50% of these women.
Based on this I believe Egwene to be closer to 75% the strength of the Forsaken. I haven't seen a quote or a quantifiable Channeling experience to convince me that she is any weaker.
As for "typical" or "average" AS, I do think the majority of the Tower women are much much weaker than Egwene et al. As in less than 50% of Egwene. But those in the upper ranks are consistently pointed to as strong, even by women who have been around the Forsaken level channelers.
Elayne comments any number of times that Sheriam level and there abouts is strong for a woman. There are plenty of "not many women possessed so much strength" when she discusses this tier of women... and of the women in the series she would know, having been exposed to Kin, WO, damane, AS and Forsaken she's seen a vast cross-section of female strength. However, even these women are farther from Egwene than Egwene is from Nynaeve...
Egwene lifted 3 women high above a ship while shielding 2 of them with little effort, this is about the same amount of weight Siuan claims was once her MAXIMUM. Egwene was not even pushed by this.
The shielding of Sheriam alos points to this. Egwene slaps a shield on Sheriam with no effort at all. Nynaeve on the other hand had trouble shielding Elayne... no doubt she CAN shield her, but she obviously has to put effort into the shield or it CAN fail.
In fact the best evidence we have of how much stronger she is than Egwene is Moiraine's estimation that Egwene and Aviendha combined could match Lanfear. This makes Lanfear less than 2x these women as neither is at 100% strength when this quote is made.
The next best thing we have is that it takes 3 AS (one very weak the others above average) to hold Semirahge's shield. And 2 to hold Egwene's. Again, making Egwene more than 50% of these women.
Based on this I believe Egwene to be closer to 75% the strength of the Forsaken. I haven't seen a quote or a quantifiable Channeling experience to convince me that she is any weaker.
As for "typical" or "average" AS, I do think the majority of the Tower women are much much weaker than Egwene et al. As in less than 50% of Egwene. But those in the upper ranks are consistently pointed to as strong, even by women who have been around the Forsaken level channelers.
Elayne comments any number of times that Sheriam level and there abouts is strong for a woman. There are plenty of "not many women possessed so much strength" when she discusses this tier of women... and of the women in the series she would know, having been exposed to Kin, WO, damane, AS and Forsaken she's seen a vast cross-section of female strength. However, even these women are farther from Egwene than Egwene is from Nynaeve...
Egwene lifted 3 women high above a ship while shielding 2 of them with little effort, this is about the same amount of weight Siuan claims was once her MAXIMUM. Egwene was not even pushed by this.
The shielding of Sheriam alos points to this. Egwene slaps a shield on Sheriam with no effort at all. Nynaeve on the other hand had trouble shielding Elayne... no doubt she CAN shield her, but she obviously has to put effort into the shield or it CAN fail.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 18/12/2009 at 12:19:20 AM
The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
17/12/2009 03:32:03 PM
- 8559 Views
I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here...
17/12/2009 04:27:53 PM
- 1709 Views
Re: I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here...
17/12/2009 05:05:18 PM
- 1674 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
17/12/2009 04:52:56 PM
- 1580 Views
Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more...
17/12/2009 04:57:17 PM
- 1467 Views
Re: Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more...
17/12/2009 06:07:39 PM
- 1205 Views
Moiraine at 45 strength is way too high. She can't be that high. *NM*
17/12/2009 07:44:50 PM
- 777 Views
why?
17/12/2009 07:57:37 PM
- 1281 Views
Re: why?
17/12/2009 08:11:13 PM
- 1350 Views
I don't think there is one scale you can put both men and women on is the point
17/12/2009 08:21:21 PM
- 1315 Views
and yet RJ does
17/12/2009 08:27:39 PM
- 1235 Views
Re: and yet RJ does
17/12/2009 09:49:20 PM
- 1107 Views
Re: and yet RJ does
18/12/2009 04:20:16 AM
- 1168 Views
No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it!
18/12/2009 05:08:04 PM
- 1318 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it!
19/12/2009 11:53:24 AM
- 1063 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it!
19/12/2009 05:12:47 PM
- 1007 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
17/12/2009 05:07:28 PM
- 1279 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
17/12/2009 06:24:12 PM
- 1194 Views
Let's work with your figures...
17/12/2009 06:45:46 PM
- 1121 Views
Re: Let's work with your figures...
17/12/2009 07:16:49 PM
- 1120 Views
You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. *NM*
17/12/2009 07:50:25 PM
- 745 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake.
17/12/2009 07:59:13 PM
- 1224 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake.
17/12/2009 08:14:01 PM
- 1121 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve
17/12/2009 08:17:10 PM
- 1069 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve
17/12/2009 08:19:34 PM
- 1243 Views
I personally think Nynaeve gained strength slower than most because of her block.
17/12/2009 08:30:44 PM
- 1328 Views
but we know as late as WH that she has not reached her full potential
17/12/2009 09:50:12 PM
- 1148 Views
What? Where? *NM*
18/12/2009 04:22:36 AM
- 1200 Views
I'll have to dig up the quote, apologies but I'm at work and don't have the books
18/12/2009 05:00:20 PM
- 1134 Views
Gateway theory refutes this. The size of gateway is relevant to strength
17/12/2009 07:46:55 PM
- 1056 Views
Re: Gateway theory refutes this. The size of gateway is relevant to strength
17/12/2009 07:55:38 PM
- 1245 Views
What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to
17/12/2009 05:40:41 PM
- 1292 Views
It means even Moghedien is vastly stronger than the average modern Aes Sedai...
17/12/2009 05:48:09 PM
- 1261 Views
Re: What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to
17/12/2009 08:15:58 PM
- 1178 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha
17/12/2009 06:47:23 PM
- 1232 Views
Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
17/12/2009 06:53:18 PM
- 1197 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
17/12/2009 07:26:55 PM
- 1431 Views
uhm.... yes she knows
17/12/2009 08:04:08 PM
- 1274 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
17/12/2009 07:28:00 PM
- 1234 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien...
17/12/2009 08:23:01 PM
- 1421 Views
Ishamael told her that she would never be strong enough to face him
17/12/2009 09:52:47 PM
- 1172 Views
And Ishamael was killed be a shepherd and Bel'al balefired by a "weak" Aes Sedai.
17/12/2009 10:33:41 PM
- 1111 Views
How can we be certain Egwene was at full strength when she said that?
17/12/2009 07:58:39 PM
- 1077 Views
Elayne says Egwene was at her full strength in TSR, and thus was stronger than she currently was.
17/12/2009 10:25:31 PM
- 1015 Views
Elayne says Egwene was forced and was thus currently stronger
17/12/2009 10:51:28 PM
- 1059 Views
Definitely TSR, because I re-read that book constantly - will try to find the section!
17/12/2009 11:23:20 PM
- 1059 Views
Re: Definitely TSR, because I re-read that book constantly - will try to find the section!
17/12/2009 11:25:31 PM
- 1075 Views
Didn't the glossary say that Cadsuane was not far behind Eg/El? *NM*
17/12/2009 08:05:32 PM
- 673 Views
This thread has achieved absolutely nothing. When people don't accept quotes, what's the use...
17/12/2009 10:22:45 PM
- 1198 Views
But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk?
17/12/2009 11:13:40 PM
- 938 Views
I think they are secretly just trying to make Lanfear appear that much stronger
*NM*
17/12/2009 11:17:38 PM
- 599 Views

You also forget something.
17/12/2009 11:36:50 PM
- 1036 Views
That has nothing to do with what I said...
18/12/2009 12:21:06 AM
- 1063 Views
Re: That has nothing to do with what I said...
18/12/2009 01:28:53 PM
- 967 Views
Dude, prove it in a random sample, not in a skewed sample like "women who want to be Aes Sedai".
18/12/2009 05:43:22 PM
- 996 Views
Show me a random sample in the series that we can use *NM*
18/12/2009 06:45:08 PM
- 982 Views
I cannot. That's the point...
18/12/2009 08:33:38 PM
- 1023 Views
The One Power Bell Curve's average strength is not 50, it is more like 15...
17/12/2009 11:41:48 PM
- 1536 Views
but you are the person quantifying the actual strength levels.
18/12/2009 12:09:08 AM
- 1031 Views
In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now?
18/12/2009 12:37:47 AM
- 981 Views
Re: In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now?
18/12/2009 12:47:52 AM
- 1026 Views
What do you mean, relative scale?
18/12/2009 12:53:29 AM
- 978 Views
OK, I have no interest in OP Strength, but you comments about statistics and bell curve got me
18/12/2009 12:20:27 AM
- 1042 Views
1 to 100 works perfectly well as a range...
18/12/2009 12:47:44 AM
- 963 Views
Here is an example with an absolute scale, converted to relative
18/12/2009 01:03:38 AM
- 1077 Views
The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population!
18/12/2009 01:28:38 AM
- 1090 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population!
18/12/2009 02:03:00 AM
- 1152 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population!
18/12/2009 03:16:25 AM
- 1098 Views
You're right, and that proves my point - here are the calculations and the evidence...
18/12/2009 07:51:26 AM
- 1071 Views
Dude, read up on some statistics, then we'll continue this debate...
18/12/2009 06:05:26 PM
- 989 Views
Explain one thing to me...
18/12/2009 10:40:00 PM
- 1012 Views
Who said she's stronger than two very strong AS? Silviana can shield her alone! *NM*
18/12/2009 11:01:01 PM
- 569 Views
Aviendha said so in FoH. It is a direct quote.
18/12/2009 11:04:21 PM
- 973 Views
which is also suspect
19/12/2009 12:04:14 AM
- 1019 Views
OK, the Tower AS don't fall into a bell-curve, then.
18/12/2009 10:34:16 PM
- 1024 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk?
18/12/2009 04:31:53 AM
- 995 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk?
18/12/2009 04:42:33 AM
- 957 Views
I've discussed this before...
18/12/2009 01:06:07 AM
- 1059 Views
Re: I've discussed this before...
18/12/2009 04:37:30 AM
- 1046 Views
Re: I've discussed this before...
18/12/2009 04:58:48 AM
- 1019 Views
Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself...
18/12/2009 07:02:28 AM
- 1056 Views
Why are you entertaining this?
18/12/2009 01:19:25 PM
- 1028 Views
The other poster showed no proof that RJ's math was wrong. Read what he said again! *NM*
18/12/2009 06:09:49 PM
- 612 Views
Verin's circle matched Granedal dude. And average strength does not mean great strength.
18/12/2009 06:07:51 PM
- 1034 Views
Re: Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself...
19/12/2009 12:46:18 AM
- 1036 Views
I can't imagine it being about skill
19/12/2009 12:06:42 PM
- 1045 Views
of course it's about skill
19/12/2009 05:22:45 PM
- 1030 Views
Not it isn't!
19/12/2009 05:52:02 PM
- 1053 Views
If she was only thinking about strength why then didn't she have a plan to add Sheriam
19/12/2009 07:09:08 PM
- 978 Views