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I've discussed this before... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 18/12/2009 01:06:07 AM
I think little or no weight is placed on the bell curve. Which is weird since it is one of the two mathematical facts we know about channeling. Ignoring its implications is not going to help solve this very contentious issue.

I've explained in depth above. Suffice it to say that I think we'll have to place someone like Anaiya or Myrelle at strength 50 for RJ's statement to hold true.

That brings a question... how is it then that three women of her strength cannot shield Rand?

I think the simple answer is that women cannot easily shield men and vice versa. Which is why some think a circle of thirteen is absolutely necessary for Aes Sedai to shield Rand.

Nothing says that three women of Anaiya's strength are not stronger than Rand linked. Heck, four women of Alise's strength or thereabouts form gateways larger than Rand's! This does not mean they can shield him.

This neatly explains why Rand is certain he can be shielded by three women only if one was Semi or Moggy (even Egwene would suffice to make a circle of three dangerous to Rand, I suspect). It also explains why three Aes Sedai, one of them Daigian, can shield Semirhage easily. And why someone like Silviana can easily hold Egwene.
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The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha Sidious - 17/12/2009 03:32:03 PM 9208 Views
I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here... Shannow - 17/12/2009 04:27:53 PM 1882 Views
Re: I assume you're referring to EFFECTIVE strength here... Sidious - 17/12/2009 05:05:18 PM 1819 Views
Fair enough but the problem is... Shannow - 17/12/2009 05:13:39 PM 1624 Views
There's one thing that does suggest Lanfear is very dextrous... fionwe1987 - 17/12/2009 05:49:14 PM 1710 Views
Re: Fair enough but the problem is... Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:08:27 PM 1297 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 04:52:56 PM 1906 Views
Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more... Shannow - 17/12/2009 04:57:17 PM 1602 Views
Indeed, and not only that Sidious - 17/12/2009 05:10:46 PM 1283 Views
Re: Alivia's rings and chains angreal multiplies strength by 4 times or more... darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 06:07:39 PM 1332 Views
Moiraine at 45 strength is way too high. She can't be that high. *NM* Logain - 17/12/2009 07:44:50 PM 835 Views
why? darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 07:57:37 PM 1417 Views
Re: why? Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:11:13 PM 1477 Views
I don't think there is one scale you can put both men and women on is the point darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 08:21:21 PM 1453 Views
and yet RJ does Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:27:39 PM 1377 Views
Re: and yet RJ does darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 09:49:20 PM 1224 Views
Re: and yet RJ does Sidious - 18/12/2009 04:20:16 AM 1294 Views
No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! darius_sedai - 18/12/2009 05:08:04 PM 1434 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! Sidious - 19/12/2009 11:53:24 AM 1205 Views
Re: No more liberty than you are taking assuming only a woman like Graendal could do it! darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 05:12:47 PM 1113 Views
Meh... Sidious - 19/12/2009 06:01:56 PM 1127 Views
Re: Meh... darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 06:43:58 PM 1190 Views
Re: Meh... darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 06:46:03 PM 1476 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha Sidious - 17/12/2009 05:07:28 PM 1407 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 06:24:12 PM 1369 Views
Let's work with your figures... Shannow - 17/12/2009 06:45:46 PM 1251 Views
Re: Let's work with your figures... darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 07:16:49 PM 1237 Views
You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. *NM* Logain - 17/12/2009 07:50:25 PM 807 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 07:59:13 PM 1340 Views
Still, it's created more questions than it has solved. Logain - 17/12/2009 08:13:26 PM 1361 Views
the obvious answer darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 10:06:33 PM 1203 Views
Re: You have a good point about Daigian and Semirhage. That may have been a BS mistake. Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:14:01 PM 1239 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve Logain - 17/12/2009 08:17:10 PM 1191 Views
Re: two women holding Nynaeve Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:19:34 PM 1375 Views
I personally think Nynaeve gained strength slower than most because of her block. Logain - 17/12/2009 08:30:44 PM 1480 Views
I think all the main characters were forced Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:38:41 PM 1344 Views
agreed! darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 10:01:37 PM 1253 Views
but we know as late as WH that she has not reached her full potential darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 09:50:12 PM 1270 Views
What? Where? *NM* Sidious - 18/12/2009 04:22:36 AM 1315 Views
I'll have to dig up the quote, apologies but I'm at work and don't have the books darius_sedai - 18/12/2009 05:00:20 PM 1273 Views
Sorry, Path of Daggers not Winter's Heart darius_sedai - 20/12/2009 03:32:33 AM 1211 Views
Don't links amplify stength? BlackAdder - 17/12/2009 10:26:12 PM 1178 Views
The opposite, actually. Phelix - 17/12/2009 10:36:51 PM 1264 Views
Gateway theory refutes this. The size of gateway is relevant to strength Logain - 17/12/2009 07:46:55 PM 1159 Views
Re: Gateway theory refutes this. The size of gateway is relevant to strength darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 07:55:38 PM 1374 Views
What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to Logain - 17/12/2009 05:40:41 PM 1412 Views
It means even Moghedien is vastly stronger than the average modern Aes Sedai... Shannow - 17/12/2009 05:48:09 PM 1446 Views
Re: What do you think of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage in relation to Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:15:58 PM 1303 Views
Agreed! *NM* Logain - 17/12/2009 08:19:08 PM 721 Views
Re: The relative strength in the Power of Nynaeve vs Cadsuane vs Egwene/Elayne/Aviendha RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 06:47:23 PM 1426 Views
Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... Shannow - 17/12/2009 06:53:18 PM 1350 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 07:26:55 PM 1552 Views
uhm.... yes she knows Oberonus - 17/12/2009 08:04:08 PM 1401 Views
Re: uhm.... yes she knows RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 10:24:17 PM 1280 Views
yup *NM* darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 10:49:51 PM 666 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 07:28:00 PM 1358 Views
Re: Except tthat Egwene herself says she has no chance against Moghedien... Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:23:01 PM 1539 Views
Ishamael told her that she would never be strong enough to face him darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 09:52:47 PM 1302 Views
And Ishamael was killed be a shepherd and Bel'al balefired by a "weak" Aes Sedai. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 10:33:41 PM 1290 Views
I hope that's not your standard for dueling Sidious - 18/12/2009 04:24:09 AM 1261 Views
what you expect a Channeler to announce themselves and darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 12:47:17 AM 1261 Views
How can we be certain Egwene was at full strength when she said that? Logain - 17/12/2009 07:58:39 PM 1219 Views
agreed darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 08:00:40 PM 1183 Views
Elayne says Egwene was at her full strength in TSR, and thus was stronger than she currently was. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 10:25:31 PM 1144 Views
Elayne says Egwene was forced and was thus currently stronger darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 10:51:28 PM 1169 Views
Definitely TSR, because I re-read that book constantly - will try to find the section! RugbyPlayingAshaman - 17/12/2009 11:23:20 PM 1171 Views
Re: Definitely TSR, because I re-read that book constantly - will try to find the section! darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 11:25:31 PM 1223 Views
Didn't the glossary say that Cadsuane was not far behind Eg/El? *NM* Cannoli - 17/12/2009 08:05:32 PM 735 Views
I'll check *NM* Sidious - 17/12/2009 08:28:57 PM 683 Views
This thread has achieved absolutely nothing. When people don't accept quotes, what's the use... Shannow - 17/12/2009 10:22:45 PM 1313 Views
No people just interpret things differently darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 10:56:45 PM 1123 Views
But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? fionwe1987 - 17/12/2009 11:13:40 PM 1072 Views
I think they are secretly just trying to make Lanfear appear that much stronger *NM* darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 11:17:38 PM 653 Views
You also forget something. Phelix - 17/12/2009 11:36:50 PM 1179 Views
Re: You also forget something. darius_sedai - 17/12/2009 11:43:50 PM 1177 Views
Re: You also forget something. Phelix - 18/12/2009 02:09:08 AM 1201 Views
That has nothing to do with what I said... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 12:21:06 AM 1185 Views
Re: That has nothing to do with what I said... Sidious - 18/12/2009 01:28:53 PM 1093 Views
Dude, prove it in a random sample, not in a skewed sample like "women who want to be Aes Sedai". fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 05:43:22 PM 1132 Views
Show me a random sample in the series that we can use *NM* Sidious - 18/12/2009 06:45:08 PM 1110 Views
I cannot. That's the point... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 08:33:38 PM 1162 Views
Re: I cannot. That's the point... Sidious - 19/12/2009 11:58:39 AM 1183 Views
Sorry, but no... fionwe1987 - 19/12/2009 06:23:41 PM 1191 Views
The One Power Bell Curve's average strength is not 50, it is more like 15... Shannow - 17/12/2009 11:41:48 PM 1671 Views
but you are the person quantifying the actual strength levels. darius_sedai - 18/12/2009 12:09:08 AM 1171 Views
Yes, Sidious' scale is a relative scale not an absolute one *NM* BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 12:23:25 AM 1075 Views
In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now? fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 12:37:47 AM 1103 Views
Re: In a Bell curve, mean=median=mode. I suppose that is untrue now? BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 12:47:52 AM 1167 Views
What do you mean, relative scale? fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 12:53:29 AM 1091 Views
Re: What do you mean, relative scale? BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 01:16:53 AM 1059 Views
Re: What do you mean, relative scale? fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 01:40:33 AM 1165 Views
OK, I have no interest in OP Strength, but you comments about statistics and bell curve got me BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 12:20:27 AM 1165 Views
1 to 100 works perfectly well as a range... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 12:47:44 AM 1068 Views
Here is an example with an absolute scale, converted to relative BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 01:03:38 AM 1254 Views
The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 01:28:38 AM 1215 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 02:03:00 AM 1273 Views
Re: The Tower is not the whole range of channeler population! fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 03:16:25 AM 1235 Views
You're right, and that proves my point - here are the calculations and the evidence... Shannow - 18/12/2009 07:51:26 AM 1209 Views
Dude, read up on some statistics, then we'll continue this debate... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 06:05:26 PM 1102 Views
Explain one thing to me... Shannow - 18/12/2009 10:40:00 PM 1135 Views
Who said she's stronger than two very strong AS? Silviana can shield her alone! *NM* fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 11:01:01 PM 629 Views
Aviendha said so in FoH. It is a direct quote. Shannow - 18/12/2009 11:04:21 PM 1091 Views
This is why I have a hard time with anyone using too many darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 12:22:40 AM 1130 Views
Can you provide the quote? fionwe1987 - 19/12/2009 06:24:40 PM 1061 Views
Well, I was curious so I went and found it darius_sedai - 26/12/2009 08:59:46 PM 1244 Views
which is also suspect darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 12:04:14 AM 1162 Views
No it's not Sidious - 19/12/2009 12:04:21 PM 1120 Views
we're in agreement darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 05:22:34 PM 1080 Views
OK, the Tower AS don't fall into a bell-curve, then. BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 10:34:16 PM 1155 Views
So, RJ made that statement for what reason? fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 11:03:30 PM 1122 Views
I don't think it's a lie BlackAdder - 18/12/2009 11:19:41 PM 1176 Views
Agreed Sidious - 18/12/2009 01:04:14 PM 1119 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? Sidious - 18/12/2009 04:31:53 AM 1119 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 04:42:33 AM 1079 Views
Re: But you ignore RJ's own quotes... who're you to talk? Sidious - 18/12/2009 01:04:39 PM 1155 Views
Bell curves CANNOT be skewed! fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 06:06:15 PM 1196 Views
I've discussed this before... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 01:06:07 AM 1201 Views
Re: I've discussed this before... Sidious - 18/12/2009 04:37:30 AM 1218 Views
Re: I've discussed this before... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 04:58:48 AM 1166 Views
Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself... Shannow - 18/12/2009 07:02:28 AM 1203 Views
Why are you entertaining this? Sidious - 18/12/2009 01:19:25 PM 1148 Views
The other poster showed no proof that RJ's math was wrong. Read what he said again! *NM* fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 06:09:49 PM 662 Views
Verin's circle matched Granedal dude. And average strength does not mean great strength. fionwe1987 - 18/12/2009 06:07:51 PM 1161 Views
Re: Egwene + Lelaine + Romanda is weaker than one male Forsaken...according to Egwene herself... darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 12:46:18 AM 1154 Views
I can't imagine it being about skill Sidious - 19/12/2009 12:06:42 PM 1182 Views
of course it's about skill darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 05:22:45 PM 1166 Views
Not it isn't! Sidious - 19/12/2009 05:52:02 PM 1200 Views
If she was only thinking about strength why then didn't she have a plan to add Sheriam darius_sedai - 19/12/2009 07:09:08 PM 1102 Views
I always thought that without her angreal... everynametaken - 18/12/2009 06:27:07 AM 1265 Views
Egwene, Elayne, and Aviendha are equally matched. Heiko - 18/12/2009 07:47:03 AM 1379 Views
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