Lets assume that Graendal had Aran'gar with her.
Idiot emissary comes. Graendal knows he's been sent by Rand just now because Aran'gar could sense the Gateway.
She compels the emissary, but not very strongly, (Nynaeve says:
She hissed and said, "Yes. Rand,
he's under a heavy Compulsion. There are a lot of weaves here. Not as bad as the chandler's apprentice, or maybe just more subtle." .) It is likely that Graendal used some very complex compulsion that would not leave the mind fo the victim useless. And, knowing that there may be some trick, she disguises herself and follows him with Aran'gar.
When Rand arrives, Graendal and Aran'gar are not far away, though they're at enough of a distance not to be seen by Rand (and they've cloaked their abilities).
When Rand channels through the CK, Aran'gar knows. She also knows what he's weaving, since there's a moment before Rand sends the Balefire against the palace.
Granedal does the quick thinking she's famous for and realizes the purpose of the emissary.
Idiot emissary comes. Graendal knows he's been sent by Rand just now because Aran'gar could sense the Gateway.
She compels the emissary, but not very strongly, (Nynaeve says:
She hissed and said, "Yes. Rand,
he's under a heavy Compulsion. There are a lot of weaves here. Not as bad as the chandler's apprentice, or maybe just more subtle." .) It is likely that Graendal used some very complex compulsion that would not leave the mind fo the victim useless. And, knowing that there may be some trick, she disguises herself and follows him with Aran'gar.
When Rand arrives, Graendal and Aran'gar are not far away, though they're at enough of a distance not to be seen by Rand (and they've cloaked their abilities).
When Rand channels through the CK, Aran'gar knows. She also knows what he's weaving, since there's a moment before Rand sends the Balefire against the palace.
Granedal does the quick thinking she's famous for and realizes the purpose of the emissary.
I'm with you so far, although it's still a pretty big leap, for me, to accept that Graendal realized the purpose of the emissary, immediately (or very quickly) after she became aware that Rand was about to weave Balefire. But the addition of knowing about the Balefire makes the idea less implausible, I agree.
Now, here's where things get hairy. We know of no way for a person to un-knot their weaves from a distance. But are we sure that's impossible? Could it not be that from her hidden location, Granedal removed the compulsion. Since it wasn't too strong, Ramshalan's mind was not screwed, and Nynaeve was able to report that it was removed.
Notice that some time passed between Rand's balefiring of the palace and Nynaeve's testing of Ramshalan. That time is sufficient to account for the removal of the compulsion.
Notice that some time passed between Rand's balefiring of the palace and Nynaeve's testing of Ramshalan. That time is sufficient to account for the removal of the compulsion.
I agree that there may have been enough time, but I just think it's unlikely she'd be able to do such a thing from a distance.
I like the way you included Aran'gar, though. I tried to think of a way for it to have been Aran'gar, not Graendal, who Compelled the emissary (and therefore that it was she who died in the balefire blast, not Graendal), but it just doesn't work. The Complusion was definitely done with saidar, since Nynaeve could see the weaves. That rules out Aran'gar's involvement, unless she and Graendal linked, and Aran'gar lead the link (would this be considered a 1man-1woman link, in which case Aran'gar would HAVE to lead?) and channeled saidar through Graendal. But that seems about as implausible as an idea can get!
This is what I think happened. And Graendal reported to Moridin, who must have known Rand is now ready to use the CK any which way.
In the next book, we'll find out what he planned to do with the info. Only, Rand is no longer that crazy.
In the next book, we'll find out what he planned to do with the info. Only, Rand is no longer that crazy.
If Graendal is still alive, it seems a reasonable conclusion, regardless how she managed to survive.
Rise and fall, turn the Wheel,
'cause all life is
is really just a circle.
-BHT&tM
'cause all life is
is really just a circle.
-BHT&tM
Graendal's Fate (Alive or Dead?)
- 05/01/2010 05:44:12 PM
2630 Views
Re: Graendal's Fate (Alive or Dead?)
- 05/01/2010 06:46:19 PM
1371 Views
Re: Graendal's Fate (Alive or Dead?)
- 05/01/2010 07:15:41 PM
1224 Views
Nynaeve's boat...
- 05/01/2010 07:23:57 PM
1190 Views
Good point ...
- 05/01/2010 07:52:04 PM
1037 Views
I'm somewhat surprised objects have threads.
- 05/01/2010 08:45:52 PM
4782 Views
Re: I'm somewhat surprised objects have threads.
- 05/01/2010 09:23:06 PM
1019 Views
Re: I'm somewhat surprised objects have threads.
- 05/01/2010 10:30:42 PM
1070 Views
There is another way...
- 05/01/2010 07:00:31 PM
1049 Views
Re: There is another way...
- 05/01/2010 07:35:05 PM
1086 Views
Nope
- 06/01/2010 04:36:56 AM
1065 Views
USe Occam's Razor yourself...
- 06/01/2010 05:53:22 AM
1184 Views
and why didn't she invert any of the weaves?
- 06/01/2010 05:55:54 AM
992 Views
Maybe you cannot invert compulsion?
- 06/01/2010 06:56:35 PM
1016 Views
so it's the one and only thing we've seen that can't be inverted? seems a little
- 06/01/2010 11:31:09 PM
952 Views
Re: so it's the one and only thing we've seen that can't be inverted?
- 07/01/2010 12:02:00 AM
895 Views
She's dead as a bloody doornail. Or whatever that saying is... *NM*
- 05/01/2010 07:20:36 PM
528 Views
Clearly dead
- 05/01/2010 07:29:11 PM
1217 Views
I think she's alive.
- 06/01/2010 06:12:50 PM
999 Views
Compulsion is rather useless isn't it?
- 06/01/2010 07:44:42 PM
1088 Views
It may take an exceptional Delver/Healer
- 06/01/2010 08:49:37 PM
1047 Views
perhaps, but still I have a hard time believing Graendal didn't invert the weaves!
- 06/01/2010 11:06:49 PM
987 Views
Re: perhaps, but still I have a hard time believing Graendal didn't invert the weaves!
- 07/01/2010 03:42:17 PM
1030 Views