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Come on now.... Jeordam Send a noteboard - 02/02/2010 04:58:34 PM
- Rand was a fair distance from Natrin's Barrow. And I just don't see Graendal weaving a massive inverted ward around the place, as that would take more of the power than she has. I DEFINITELY don't see her strolling around the perimeter placing wards, she's far to decadent for that. Also, the gateway which Rand opened was NOT in sight of Graendal's palace.

First off.....Rand wasn't *that* far away either. The nobleman was able to walk there, talk with Graendal, and walk back in the matter of very little time. He couldn't have been that far out. Let's remember a few things about Graendal. First off...she is a very strong channeler. As per where her strength level sits is up to debate. She wasn't at the top with Lanfear (original), but she was certainly not at the bottom of spectrum with Moghedien either. She's gotta be someplace between Mesaana & Lanfear. Either way...she's got game. Secondly, she has her pinky ring angreal which gives her more than sufficient strength.

As for her being too decadent for walking around and warding the place, lets be serious. Do you think that any of the forsaken, regardless of their personalities, would risk letting someone creap up on them unknown...just because they couldn't stand to set wards by themselves. It is not beyond the relm of possibilities for her to actually take a walk and do it, use a horse, or more in character to have some guys carry her around on one of those chair things. She may be decadent...but she isn't foolish.

- Compulsion that disappears on delving has never been seen or heard of in the series. It's pure speculation at best.

Its just variation on a theme. We have already seen weaves which dissapate upon contact with another weave (Rand & triggering the wards in Illian). And when it comes to channeling...everything is speculation until it happens. We didn't know that a gateway could be forced to remain open with another weave...until it was done. Either way you wanna look at it...its certainly not outside the realm of possible.

- Ramshalan had no idea what Rand intended. At best, he thought Rand was dropping him off around the place to secure support for the throne: "It is the first of many places I will send you... seek those who rule the keep. See if they are willing to support me." Rand acknowledges that Graendal will see through this, but will probably believe part of it at least. There's simply nothing prior to send Ramshalan off that indicates Rand's plan to use the CK + BF.


There doesn't need to be. What's the one thing that Graendal has done this entire time? Stayed hidden. She's not to the point of Moghedien, but she's certainly not out in the open like Be'lal, Rhavin, or Sammael. In fact, none of the female Forsaken were. They were all hiding in one way or another but in a position to effect things (Truth Speaker, inside Aes Sedai agent, random other people, and an elderly nobel woman in Graendal's case). The very fact that Rand sent someone...anyone...out in the middle of no where was enough. Her cover was blown. Remember that very few, if anyone, remembered that place was there. Let alone who lived there. That's good enough. Graendal is not stupid...she knew very well that Rand could just show up. She's not going to be able to hide there. She doesn't need to know that Rand is going to CK + FB the place. All she needed to know was that Rand found about about the place at all.

- If Graendal DID sense the gateway opening, she would have just left instantly. She's the kind of person that either feels safe or unsafe; what was to stop Rand from instantly Balefiring the place, or entering it himself with a bunch of AS?

This is a good point. She very well could have high-tailed it out of there. As for her thinking that he would balefire the entire place....I don't think that anyone would have thought that he would do that. After all, each and every one of the Forsaken know how to use Balefire. And there is absolutely no way to block it. Yet they have rarely busted it out themselves, and never to the same magnitude that Rand does regularly...let alone in this instance. Would she suspect that he would use it? Yes. Would she suspect that he would nuke the entire place? Never.

As for entering it himself with a bunch of AS, definatley a possibility...but he did't. Why she waited around for the guy to show up...I don't know.

What my whole point is this. Her death was off screen...she could live.

~Jeordam
ex-Admin at wotmania (all things wot & art galleries)
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985
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So your name is Graendal.... - 01/02/2010 09:18:00 PM 1629 Views
one of the reasons I'm at a loss with her death ... along with the lead-up being clumsy *NM* - 01/02/2010 09:36:29 PM 682 Views
She very well... - 01/02/2010 11:13:50 PM 876 Views
Exactly how I feel ... to the letter! *NM* - 01/02/2010 11:17:57 PM 539 Views
Re: She very well... - 02/02/2010 08:42:17 AM 831 Views
Ha! "Graendal actually kills Asmodean". A very bold claim. *NM* - 02/02/2010 10:51:40 AM 581 Views
Bold like saying that water is wet.... - 02/02/2010 05:46:54 PM 543 Views
I am now split with a 80% belief it's Graendal and 20% that it's Moghedien *NM* - 02/02/2010 06:11:47 PM 367 Views
Moghedien.... - 02/02/2010 06:15:41 PM 635 Views
The a'dam doesn't limit your ability to enter T'A'R - 02/02/2010 06:36:26 PM 590 Views
Yeah..... - 02/02/2010 06:46:50 PM 796 Views
Re: Yeah..... - 02/02/2010 07:42:59 PM 589 Views
This brings up a very intersting question... - 02/02/2010 09:30:49 PM 800 Views
Re: This brings up a very intersting question... - 02/02/2010 09:57:24 PM 602 Views
Moghedien? Really? - 02/02/2010 07:56:33 PM 671 Views
when was Semirhage in an a'dam? *NM* - 02/02/2010 08:48:27 PM 364 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 02/02/2010 09:03:54 PM 550 Views
Egwene was faintly forkrooted, not heavily. - 02/02/2010 10:24:55 PM 599 Views
It was heavy enough to nullify her ability almost completely by TGS - 02/02/2010 10:38:04 PM 507 Views
That's still extremely faint. - 02/02/2010 11:07:10 PM 580 Views
Re: That's still extremely faint. - 03/02/2010 03:34:06 PM 626 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 03/02/2010 01:02:13 AM 534 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? - 03/02/2010 03:31:21 PM 754 Views
The chance that Moggy killed Asmo is actually 0 % - 02/02/2010 09:32:03 PM 653 Views
*nods* - 02/02/2010 09:36:04 PM 496 Views
Well, I completely disagree, but that's another discussion. *NM* - 02/02/2010 07:07:05 PM 347 Views
Yes, I agree. *NM* - 02/02/2010 03:26:13 PM 479 Views
As bad as Sammael's death. *NM* - 03/02/2010 02:00:02 AM 346 Views
Yes, pretty much. - 01/02/2010 11:21:31 PM 632 Views
Couple of flaws in that reasoning - 02/02/2010 07:56:35 AM 929 Views
Graendal already has a massive inverted ward around the palace. - 02/02/2010 03:23:44 PM 698 Views
Come on now.... - 02/02/2010 04:58:34 PM 842 Views
IMO - 02/02/2010 05:58:10 PM 645 Views
This could go either way.... - 02/02/2010 06:14:21 PM 793 Views
RE: Strength and Compulsion - 02/02/2010 06:31:13 PM 792 Views
I never figured that Verin was weak....or even middling. - 02/02/2010 06:57:11 PM 682 Views
Re: I never figured that Verin was weak....or even middling. - 02/02/2010 07:51:15 PM 662 Views
Verin was using her angreal when she compelled. *NM* - 02/02/2010 08:00:50 PM 392 Views
Danke for clarification. - 02/02/2010 08:15:39 PM 523 Views
The thing is... - 02/02/2010 09:39:18 AM 651 Views
Its still a game... - 02/02/2010 05:09:42 PM 692 Views
I could buy... - 02/02/2010 07:16:43 PM 637 Views
Please, - 02/02/2010 10:42:00 AM 637 Views
*ha* - 02/02/2010 05:10:41 PM 585 Views
My name is Graendal? My parents will be so confused. - 02/02/2010 02:19:26 PM 608 Views
So what would you say... - 02/02/2010 05:12:09 PM 594 Views
Wow. - 02/02/2010 06:00:11 PM 648 Views
Never underestimate.... - 02/02/2010 06:08:42 PM 567 Views
"Oh, no... Rand is totally going to balefire me!" *NM* - 03/02/2010 08:50:26 PM 326 Views
A conclusion with an explanation built around it. - 02/02/2010 10:22:29 PM 693 Views
Hah! - 02/02/2010 10:38:38 PM 520 Views
I miss Diomedes . *NM* - 02/02/2010 11:07:45 PM 308 Views
So...like the theory of Macro Evolution? People seem to believe that..... - 02/02/2010 11:22:41 PM 660 Views
... - 03/02/2010 01:23:06 AM 587 Views
Ok...I'm just saying... - 03/02/2010 04:00:46 PM 759 Views
That's ridiculous - 02/02/2010 11:39:41 PM 629 Views
Hold on now.... - 02/02/2010 11:51:32 PM 768 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 03/02/2010 02:52:07 AM 626 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 03/02/2010 08:59:44 PM 639 Views
Re: Hold on now.... - 04/02/2010 04:44:31 AM 568 Views
Your theory breaks down because of something Brandon said. - 03/02/2010 03:49:58 AM 570 Views
Kind of - 03/02/2010 04:10:04 AM 639 Views
I disagree. - 03/02/2010 05:31:39 AM 517 Views
But how many previously unseen weaves have had such huge implications? - 03/02/2010 01:29:15 PM 797 Views
Two things come to mind... - 03/02/2010 03:50:38 PM 717 Views
I don't really think this is relevant - 03/02/2010 05:03:51 PM 625 Views
There's a difference.... - 03/02/2010 06:01:30 PM 670 Views
I know there is. You're the one who brought up the weaves being picked apart - 03/02/2010 06:37:40 PM 663 Views
*grins* - 03/02/2010 06:42:54 PM 671 Views
But again... - 03/02/2010 06:59:18 PM 599 Views
sure we do - 03/02/2010 07:03:40 PM 541 Views
Each of them was at the very least confused/disoriented afterwards. - 03/02/2010 07:14:24 PM 521 Views
But here's the thing... - 03/02/2010 07:36:42 PM 631 Views
I think we disagree with what "subtle" means here. - 03/02/2010 07:46:20 PM 562 Views
Kerb was more subtle than most, but we've seen subtler. - 04/02/2010 05:16:33 PM 754 Views
Re: Each of them was at the very least confused/disoriented afterwards. - 03/02/2010 07:37:58 PM 521 Views
... - 03/02/2010 07:42:07 PM 601 Views
Re: ... - 03/02/2010 07:59:26 PM 554 Views
But - 03/02/2010 08:04:27 PM 658 Views
I think it would be obvious if Ituralde was acting different - 03/02/2010 08:18:50 PM 758 Views
Hrm - 03/02/2010 08:36:12 PM 740 Views
It happens in WH when they go to tell her that Moridin is N'B - 03/02/2010 08:43:11 PM 600 Views
Thanks *NM* - 03/02/2010 08:47:29 PM 336 Views
Now try and not lynch me... - 03/02/2010 04:08:11 PM 634 Views
But that's not how it happened - 03/02/2010 08:18:59 PM 626 Views

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