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Its still a game... Jeordam Send a noteboard - 02/02/2010 05:09:42 PM
Graendal would never expect Rand to simply balefire her whole palace out of existence. When Rand sent his messenger, Graendal figured that Rand wanted to "play", while he actually just planned to use brute force.

I agree...there's no reason why she would expect to get nuked. But there is absolutely no reason to believe that she wouldn't have a fast way to get out of dodge.

This is the point of Rand's analogy of two people sitting on a table, one thinks the game starts, but the other just punches the opponent in the face.

But see...Rand did more than sit at that table. He played the first piece & then *waited* for her reaction. There is, what, 20 minutes...maybe more...between when the guy left Graendal & Rand nukes the palace. Are you saying that she couldn't have gotten out of there in that time?


Any other interpretation, namely that Graendal outsmarted Rand, while he was trying to outsmart her, gives the Forsaken too much credit and the Dragon Reborn too less credit.


Not at all. Just because the vast majority of the Forsaken are complete incompetants, doesn't mean that Graendal is. In the grand scheme of the Forsaken, I would put her at the very top of them all when it came to raw brain power. Her only other competitor in the whole thing would be Ishmael, but he's always been a bit too philosophical. Don't look at the titles of the people, but look at who they are. Graendal in and of her own right was an accomplished person who dealt with problems of the mind which channeling couldn't heal. That's *huge*. She was accomplished outside of her channling abilities. How many others can say that among the Forsaken?

So over to Rand. Yes, he's got Lews Therin in his brain, but its not as though the transition is smooth or even...real? Instead, you have the sheep herder & the past life of an awsome man. I think that you give him too much credit in thinking that he could completely out think one of the greatest minds from the Age of Legends. After all...it can be very much said that Graendal actually does know Rand/LT better than he knows himself.

~Jeordam
ex-Admin at wotmania (all things wot & art galleries)
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985
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So your name is Graendal.... Jeordam - 01/02/2010 09:18:00 PM 2029 Views
one of the reasons I'm at a loss with her death ... along with the lead-up being clumsy *NM* darius_sedai - 01/02/2010 09:36:29 PM 887 Views
She very well... Jeordam - 01/02/2010 11:13:50 PM 1380 Views
Exactly how I feel ... to the letter! *NM* darius_sedai - 01/02/2010 11:17:57 PM 746 Views
Re: She very well... jiggy - 02/02/2010 08:42:17 AM 1406 Views
Ha! "Graendal actually kills Asmodean". A very bold claim. *NM* Etzel - 02/02/2010 10:51:40 AM 783 Views
Bold like saying that water is wet.... Jeordam - 02/02/2010 05:46:54 PM 936 Views
I am now split with a 80% belief it's Graendal and 20% that it's Moghedien *NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/02/2010 06:11:47 PM 571 Views
Moghedien.... Jeordam - 02/02/2010 06:15:41 PM 1087 Views
The a'dam doesn't limit your ability to enter T'A'R RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/02/2010 06:36:26 PM 1077 Views
Yeah..... Jeordam - 02/02/2010 06:46:50 PM 1246 Views
Re: Yeah..... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/02/2010 07:42:59 PM 985 Views
This brings up a very intersting question... Jeordam - 02/02/2010 09:30:49 PM 1275 Views
Re: This brings up a very intersting question... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/02/2010 09:57:24 PM 984 Views
Moghedien? Really? fionwe1987 - 02/02/2010 07:56:33 PM 1082 Views
when was Semirhage in an a'dam? *NM* darius_sedai - 02/02/2010 08:48:27 PM 580 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/02/2010 09:03:54 PM 1124 Views
Egwene was faintly forkrooted, not heavily. Fanatic-Templar - 02/02/2010 10:24:55 PM 1004 Views
It was heavy enough to nullify her ability almost completely by TGS RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/02/2010 10:38:04 PM 975 Views
That's still extremely faint. Fanatic-Templar - 02/02/2010 11:07:10 PM 990 Views
Re: That's still extremely faint. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2010 03:34:06 PM 1017 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? fionwe1987 - 03/02/2010 01:02:13 AM 977 Views
Re: Moghedien? Really? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2010 03:31:21 PM 1219 Views
The chance that Moggy killed Asmo is actually 0 % Etzel - 02/02/2010 09:32:03 PM 1087 Views
*nods* Jeordam - 02/02/2010 09:36:04 PM 902 Views
Well, I completely disagree, but that's another discussion. *NM* Etzel - 02/02/2010 07:07:05 PM 548 Views
Yes, I agree. *NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/02/2010 03:26:13 PM 706 Views
As bad as Sammael's death. *NM* Kieran - 03/02/2010 02:00:02 AM 562 Views
The lead up was clumsy because her death scene was rather forced. Libby - 09/02/2010 11:11:21 PM 1176 Views
Yes, pretty much. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/02/2010 11:21:31 PM 1077 Views
Couple of flaws in that reasoning Lord Haart - 02/02/2010 07:56:35 AM 1358 Views
Graendal already has a massive inverted ward around the palace. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/02/2010 03:23:44 PM 1146 Views
Come on now.... Jeordam - 02/02/2010 04:58:34 PM 1261 Views
IMO Sareitha Sedai - 02/02/2010 05:58:10 PM 1058 Views
This could go either way.... Jeordam - 02/02/2010 06:14:21 PM 1189 Views
RE: Strength and Compulsion RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/02/2010 06:31:13 PM 1188 Views
I never figured that Verin was weak....or even middling. Jeordam - 02/02/2010 06:57:11 PM 1072 Views
Re: I never figured that Verin was weak....or even middling. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/02/2010 07:51:15 PM 1095 Views
Verin was using her angreal when she compelled. *NM* fionwe1987 - 02/02/2010 08:00:50 PM 589 Views
Danke for clarification. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/02/2010 08:15:39 PM 919 Views
The thing is... Etzel - 02/02/2010 09:39:18 AM 1088 Views
Its still a game... Jeordam - 02/02/2010 05:09:42 PM 1129 Views
I could buy... Etzel - 02/02/2010 07:16:43 PM 1027 Views
Please, Artsapat - 02/02/2010 10:42:00 AM 1055 Views
*ha* Jeordam - 02/02/2010 05:10:41 PM 1084 Views
My name is Graendal? My parents will be so confused. TaskmasterJack - 02/02/2010 02:19:26 PM 1021 Views
So what would you say... Jeordam - 02/02/2010 05:12:09 PM 1020 Views
Wow. Sareitha Sedai - 02/02/2010 06:00:11 PM 1061 Views
Never underestimate.... Jeordam - 02/02/2010 06:08:42 PM 982 Views
"Oh, no... Rand is totally going to balefire me!" *NM* TaskmasterJack - 03/02/2010 08:50:26 PM 528 Views
A conclusion with an explanation built around it. Fanatic-Templar - 02/02/2010 10:22:29 PM 1105 Views
Hah! RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/02/2010 10:38:38 PM 954 Views
I miss Diomedes . *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 02/02/2010 11:07:45 PM 527 Views
So...like the theory of Macro Evolution? People seem to believe that..... Jeordam - 02/02/2010 11:22:41 PM 1159 Views
... Fanatic-Templar - 03/02/2010 01:23:06 AM 1019 Views
Ok...I'm just saying... Jeordam - 03/02/2010 04:00:46 PM 1194 Views
I don't mean to make any generalisations about you, and I'm sorry if that's what I sounded like. Fanatic-Templar - 04/02/2010 12:24:34 AM 1015 Views
That's ridiculous rAndy aL - 02/02/2010 11:39:41 PM 1035 Views
Hold on now.... Jeordam - 02/02/2010 11:51:32 PM 1223 Views
Re: Hold on now.... Lord Haart - 03/02/2010 02:52:07 AM 1022 Views
Re: Hold on now.... darius_sedai - 03/02/2010 08:59:44 PM 1061 Views
Re: Hold on now.... Lord Haart - 04/02/2010 04:44:31 AM 993 Views
Your theory breaks down because of something Brandon said. Logain - 03/02/2010 03:49:58 AM 950 Views
Kind of Lord Haart - 03/02/2010 04:10:04 AM 1100 Views
I disagree. Gher - 03/02/2010 05:31:39 AM 924 Views
But how many previously unseen weaves have had such huge implications? Lord Haart - 03/02/2010 01:29:15 PM 1224 Views
Two things come to mind... Jeordam - 03/02/2010 03:50:38 PM 1122 Views
I don't really think this is relevant Sareitha Sedai - 03/02/2010 05:03:51 PM 1055 Views
There's a difference.... Jeordam - 03/02/2010 06:01:30 PM 1101 Views
I know there is. You're the one who brought up the weaves being picked apart Sareitha Sedai - 03/02/2010 06:37:40 PM 1065 Views
*grins* Jeordam - 03/02/2010 06:42:54 PM 1103 Views
But again... Sareitha Sedai - 03/02/2010 06:59:18 PM 991 Views
sure we do darius_sedai - 03/02/2010 07:03:40 PM 969 Views
Each of them was at the very least confused/disoriented afterwards. Sareitha Sedai - 03/02/2010 07:14:24 PM 950 Views
But here's the thing... Jeordam - 03/02/2010 07:36:42 PM 1068 Views
I think we disagree with what "subtle" means here. Sareitha Sedai - 03/02/2010 07:46:20 PM 959 Views
Kerb was more subtle than most, but we've seen subtler. Gher - 04/02/2010 05:16:33 PM 1192 Views
Re: Each of them was at the very least confused/disoriented afterwards. darius_sedai - 03/02/2010 07:37:58 PM 969 Views
... Sareitha Sedai - 03/02/2010 07:42:07 PM 992 Views
Re: ... darius_sedai - 03/02/2010 07:59:26 PM 991 Views
But Sareitha Sedai - 03/02/2010 08:04:27 PM 1122 Views
I think it would be obvious if Ituralde was acting different darius_sedai - 03/02/2010 08:18:50 PM 1288 Views
Hrm Sareitha Sedai - 03/02/2010 08:36:12 PM 1186 Views
It happens in WH when they go to tell her that Moridin is N'B darius_sedai - 03/02/2010 08:43:11 PM 1034 Views
Thanks *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 03/02/2010 08:47:29 PM 541 Views
Now try and not lynch me... Jeordam - 03/02/2010 04:08:11 PM 1063 Views
But that's not how it happened BlackAdder - 03/02/2010 08:18:59 PM 1009 Views
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