A friend of mine, Paul Smith, wrote this essay earlier today in response to an earlier essay of mine on genre sacred cows and discussion of such. Since he has a few links to related discussions, I suggest you just click on the link and read his arguments.
But it seems to me that Paul Smith makes a bit of a mess of things by mixing two categories of things. The first consists of the flaws in LotR that can be considered flaws in a more or less objective judgement - to wit, the less well-written passages, the not too spectacular plot, the lack of depth in most characters. The second, however, consists of things in LotR that are irritating to Paul Smith and modern readers in general, perhaps also to many readers at the time of writing, but that really can't be called an objective flaw. One may find the sexism and the views on nature vs. industry outdated, silly or even revolting, but that doesn't mean the book is qualitatively worse for containing these things.
And there it becomes a little ironic, since one of the people at Westeros defending Viriconium and Harrison - and then again in fewer words you yourself, Larry - blames his opponents for judging the book for things they want in it that aren't there, and not for the things that are there. For failing to "judging the text based on its own parameters", to quote you. Seems to me that Paul Smith opens himself up - perhaps without intending to - to the charge of being guilty of the same thing. So Tolkien has themes that he doesn't like, and doesn't have things that he *would* have liked (i.e. gender equality). But if Paul Smith is supposed to take the same stance as you and as that Richard guy on Westeros, he really should not mention these things in an essay on why LotR is flawed.
I'll just only note that the "Richard" in that one thread is author Richard Morgan, who does have a dog in this hunt.
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie
Je suis méchant.
Je suis méchant.
Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy
- 28/07/2010 10:02:39 PM
1819 Views
Nonsense, at least in part
- 28/07/2010 10:19:19 PM
1391 Views
I know there is a polite difference of opinion here
- 28/07/2010 10:40:42 PM
1189 Views
Have to agree.
- 28/07/2010 11:38:37 PM
1280 Views
It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big.
- 29/07/2010 09:44:53 AM
1095 Views
*cough* Twilight *cough*
- 29/07/2010 10:15:13 AM
1172 Views
I was gonna mention that one too.
- 29/07/2010 10:35:17 AM
1230 Views
Mmm. I read an interesting article actually...
- 29/07/2010 08:24:04 PM
1037 Views
That's a fair point, I guess...
- 29/07/2010 09:18:13 PM
1240 Views
mmm, except it's relevant to Bella too.
- 29/07/2010 10:43:03 PM
1118 Views
That's my point, it's pretty much only relevant to Bella - only there is it shown prominently. *NM*
- 29/07/2010 10:59:54 PM
534 Views
Of course, since she's the main character, it matters rather a lot, yes? *NM*
- 30/07/2010 09:39:07 AM
526 Views
How much do you have to read to form an opinion?
- 29/07/2010 12:23:28 PM
1191 Views
To the end
- 29/07/2010 12:59:25 PM
1070 Views
my reading time is too scarce to think that way
- 29/07/2010 01:21:26 PM
1250 Views
I agree, but HP is a good example of something you should keep reading
- 29/07/2010 08:27:20 PM
1250 Views
and I will
- 29/07/2010 09:13:03 PM
973 Views
The books mature as Harry does. You should really give it another shot *NM*
- 29/07/2010 03:00:37 PM
607 Views
He doesn't want to, so why should he? It's not like you or he is losing anything now
- 29/07/2010 06:15:58 PM
1063 Views
It is a case of the "someone is wrong on the internet" thing, only much older
- 29/07/2010 06:27:07 PM
1002 Views
well you have not failed completely
- 29/07/2010 06:50:15 PM
1014 Views
Re: well you have not failed completely
- 29/07/2010 06:53:38 PM
1058 Views
one quick question
- 29/07/2010 07:38:00 PM
1092 Views
how many books do I have to read to get to the grown up books?
- 29/07/2010 06:42:37 PM
1029 Views
None of them are "geared towards grown ups" - it's still a YA series.
- 29/07/2010 07:03:24 PM
1030 Views
They're all "light reading" for adults, geared towards YA readers.
- 29/07/2010 08:29:01 PM
1016 Views
Re: It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big.
- 29/07/2010 08:45:58 PM
1148 Views
it's not supposed to be on par with adult fantasy.
- 29/07/2010 08:49:16 PM
1142 Views
I'd argue it's better than Jordan and others from a literary standpoint.
- 29/07/2010 09:14:07 PM
1087 Views
I have always thought Jordan had some interesting themes but they were often ignored...
- 29/07/2010 09:27:12 PM
1236 Views
I agree Tolkien should not be a sacred cow or put on a pedestal overmuch.
- 28/07/2010 11:10:37 PM
1222 Views
I can see your points there
- 28/07/2010 11:18:59 PM
1140 Views
I completely agree that there should be no sacred cows, and that applies to Tolkien.
- 28/07/2010 11:13:39 PM
1144 Views
all art forms have sacred cows
- 29/07/2010 01:38:26 AM
1225 Views
Yeah, it was the line about women waiting at home while their men went to war that made me laugh.
- 29/07/2010 06:44:34 PM
1098 Views
Disappointing.
- 29/07/2010 04:41:34 AM
1168 Views
I think you are ignoring the key fact that the Silmarillion was never published by Tolkien.
- 30/07/2010 01:48:14 PM
1410 Views
I find the Tolkien lovers to be obnoxious in their never ending masturbatory praise of his works.
- 30/07/2010 06:09:42 AM
1180 Views



