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They're Thick Bookends. The Name With No Man Send a noteboard - 05/12/2009 06:12:06 PM
am I the only one who has noticed that Moridin is a Buddhist?

All that Kerouac and "pretty women make graves" (because they inspire lust, which leads to reproduction, which multiplies suffering) and it went right by me. So we have Christianity, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, a fair amount of Jainist elements in the original Aiel as well as the Tinkers (Tinkers can eat meat though, right? Does anyone recall seeing a Tinker eat meat?) and of course the vague animism that crops up in virtually every fantasy work. No, no depth at all. :P


Cursory picking from various religions does not equal depth.

Which was no mean feat given the author has a dog very much in that fight. Hell, we haven't even touched apocalyptic mythoi, but don't forget the books publication bookend Y2K. That may not seem like a big deal now, but in the '90s it was huge to many people for many reasons. Of course, the end of the world has a kind of enduring relevancy of its own as long as it remains absent, as even bad feature films demonstrate. :P

You know how millennialism gets when the odometer's about to roll over on us. It probably contributed to the existence of Seventh Day Adventists in the middle of the 1800s, but anyway. Point being, I think it played a huge role in the interest generated by an apocalyptic fantasy series that began at the start of the 2nd Milleniums last decade and has continued through the new ones first decade. We're surely on the downside of that buzz now, the Magic Day came and went with nothing more significant than a lot of red faces (and a few people convinced are clocks are just set fast and the end will come on the winter solstice in three years) but it still contributes, and of course the people who came for the Doomsday and stayed for the show are still here.
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In Support of Other Fiction - 01/12/2009 09:06:14 PM 2004 Views
- 01/12/2009 09:22:56 PM 1080 Views
Re: - 01/12/2009 09:28:04 PM 1046 Views
Wow...we were just Santified *NM* - 03/12/2009 09:16:21 PM 530 Views
Well, let me offer a diverging view on the topic of speculative fiction. - 01/12/2009 09:46:35 PM 976 Views
I would counter that the stripping away removes a level of reality. - 01/12/2009 10:05:28 PM 1054 Views
That's a Slippery Slope Because You Could Argue On the Same Basis That All Fiction Does That. - 01/12/2009 11:34:34 PM 1111 Views
I don't see the slippery slope, but rather, a confirmation of my original point. - 02/12/2009 01:41:24 AM 1056 Views
perhaps some university will do a study - 03/12/2009 03:55:54 PM 1016 Views
I'd like to see it - 03/12/2009 09:15:12 PM 1068 Views
I'll get to it once I finish my thesis - 03/12/2009 09:56:29 PM 999 Views
If it looks like crap and smells like crap... - 03/12/2009 10:04:15 PM 1036 Views
I Think I'll Post a Thread on This. - 03/12/2009 06:47:05 PM 973 Views
I'd like to see it. - 03/12/2009 09:23:07 PM 1034 Views
Regarding depth in Jordan - 03/12/2009 09:31:19 PM 1044 Views
I was thinking about that too - 03/12/2009 10:05:40 PM 1013 Views
Re: I was thinking about that too - 03/12/2009 10:09:26 PM 1108 Views
Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. - 03/12/2009 10:18:08 PM 996 Views
Re: Destroying the Wheel is meaningless. - 03/12/2009 10:30:15 PM 1029 Views
I Totally Missed That. - 04/12/2009 10:45:56 PM 1081 Views
Re: I Totally Missed That. - 04/12/2009 10:47:59 PM 1074 Views
I Don't Believe It Cursory, But Comparative. - 04/12/2009 11:29:36 PM 1155 Views
Publication bookend Y2K? - 05/12/2009 10:36:01 AM 1066 Views
They're Thick Bookends. - 05/12/2009 06:12:06 PM 1022 Views
I'll Try to Have It Up Tomorrow Early. - 04/12/2009 11:24:18 PM 1110 Views
I like it. - 01/12/2009 10:28:48 PM 1034 Views
Thank you! - 02/12/2009 01:43:05 AM 1180 Views
I find Michel Houellebecq to be one of the most intriguing writers of our time - 01/12/2009 11:14:05 PM 1120 Views
And, in recent memory, Orwell was a first-rate writer. - 02/12/2009 01:44:29 AM 1117 Views
wait! there's somebody "dirtier" than Piers Anthony or Philip Jose Farmer??? - 03/12/2009 04:00:28 PM 1075 Views
PJF is dirty? - 04/12/2009 12:16:12 AM 953 Views
Nice post. - 02/12/2009 12:03:09 AM 1128 Views
Perhaps you're right. - 02/12/2009 01:47:10 AM 1000 Views
In its entirety? No. - 02/12/2009 02:00:10 PM 1042 Views
I agree! - 02/12/2009 12:17:10 AM 1240 Views
Thank you! - 02/12/2009 01:50:22 AM 937 Views
I guess I'll break my silence after almost a month and a half... - 02/12/2009 12:23:07 AM 1135 Views
Popcorn? - 02/12/2009 12:31:44 AM 1059 Views
Yes - 02/12/2009 12:39:10 AM 1109 Views
Lovecraft? - 02/12/2009 12:51:55 AM 1102 Views
Re-read what I said - 02/12/2009 12:55:08 AM 1170 Views
aahh - 02/12/2009 09:26:40 AM 1029 Views
Larry, please tell me you weren't... - 03/12/2009 04:33:32 PM 901 Views
I concur - 02/12/2009 12:27:13 AM 1006 Views
I like your framing of the issue (and Shannara is the Taco Bell of writing). - 02/12/2009 02:03:51 AM 1069 Views
Thank you - 02/12/2009 09:30:42 AM 1026 Views
more like the mom&pop greasy-spoon diner of writing *NM* - 03/12/2009 05:00:21 PM 494 Views
I'm going to put this in my sig, if you don't mind. - 02/12/2009 03:31:13 AM 1097 Views
hehehe - 02/12/2009 09:31:28 AM 984 Views
Am i the only one who reads books for fun? - 02/12/2009 12:33:52 AM 1122 Views
There isn't necessarily a contradiction - 02/12/2009 12:38:43 AM 1055 Views
I certainly didn't read The Lost Symbol for ANY cultural, intellectual or edifying reason. - 02/12/2009 02:05:45 AM 1024 Views
it didn't come across that way - 03/12/2009 05:15:36 PM 1049 Views
Of course not. Personally, I don't touch anything other than mind candy when I'm in school, - 02/12/2009 03:29:23 AM 991 Views
one of the things that is important to me in books/shows - 03/12/2009 05:20:29 PM 930 Views
We agree! - 03/12/2009 08:03:00 PM 1021 Views
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is a science fiction/fantasy movie. - 02/12/2009 12:54:08 AM 1091 Views
i was gonna point that out. thnks. *NM* - 02/12/2009 01:13:47 AM 445 Views
Reading only speculative literature is limiting and monotonous. - 02/12/2009 02:09:42 AM 1127 Views
I was going to say exactly that about "real" literature: monotonous and limiting. - 02/12/2009 01:57:49 PM 1023 Views
I think his point was that only SF/F wasn't good food. - 02/12/2009 02:15:29 PM 1000 Views
I would not disagree with you if you said that. - 02/12/2009 02:27:08 PM 944 Views
Most non-speculative fiction is fluff as well though. - 03/12/2009 05:38:32 PM 945 Views
hear hear!! I agree totally wert-man - 03/12/2009 07:20:09 PM 1019 Views
Which brings us back to my point. - 03/12/2009 08:04:24 PM 1076 Views
Actually, it is a film that does not fit neatly into one category - 02/12/2009 11:16:20 AM 1071 Views
Science Fiction is the most PERTINANT form of fiction in the world today - 02/12/2009 12:57:19 AM 1006 Views
don't get me wrong - 02/12/2009 01:28:08 AM 1048 Views
SF&F and 'real literature' are not mutually exclusive - 02/12/2009 01:19:05 AM 1019 Views
No, they are not - 02/12/2009 02:18:53 AM 1029 Views
This line is a load of bull - 03/12/2009 02:39:53 PM 1115 Views
So why don't we occasionally focus on "real" books that are technically spec fiction? - 02/12/2009 01:25:04 AM 1000 Views
Why must we limit our focus in that way? - 02/12/2009 02:20:11 AM 980 Views
I don't see it as limiting or forcing. - 02/12/2009 03:16:07 AM 1011 Views
"Elite club" or "elitist clique"? - 02/12/2009 03:52:11 AM 988 Views
Either way, I want in. *NM* - 02/12/2009 11:33:52 AM 542 Views
Elite club is how we midwestern rednecks refer to Elitist Clique. *chews on a piece of hay* - 02/12/2009 02:52:01 PM 1138 Views
I was born in the Midwest. - 02/12/2009 03:01:36 PM 1056 Views
I know. - 02/12/2009 03:12:05 PM 987 Views
Green Acres in reverse, eh? - 02/12/2009 03:38:09 PM 1005 Views
lmao - 02/12/2009 06:21:17 PM 1149 Views
*piledrivers you* - 02/12/2009 06:28:02 PM 956 Views
...! - 02/12/2009 03:17:57 PM 999 Views
Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. - 02/12/2009 03:29:31 PM 1011 Views
Re: Admit it. You know what I'm talking about. - 02/12/2009 03:31:26 PM 961 Views
Vermont isn't in the Midwest. - 02/12/2009 03:39:36 PM 974 Views
Re: Vermont isn't in the Midwest. - 02/12/2009 03:42:47 PM 986 Views
Huh! I really didn't think of you as being a masochist. - 02/12/2009 01:51:55 AM 962 Views
Thank you! - 02/12/2009 02:21:00 AM 897 Views
Shitstorm! - 02/12/2009 03:06:59 AM 952 Views
Heh heh heh. - 02/12/2009 03:45:40 AM 991 Views
Read what you like to read. - 02/12/2009 04:18:53 AM 1071 Views
I'll super size you. Fine. *NM* - 02/12/2009 04:32:58 AM 509 Views
Oh noes! I'm getting word-fat! - 02/12/2009 04:59:05 AM 1000 Views
I seem to have struck a nerve. - 02/12/2009 05:20:27 AM 1039 Views
Apparently not the nerve you think, though. - 02/12/2009 06:42:02 AM 1103 Views
Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. - 02/12/2009 02:13:10 PM 1020 Views
Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. - 02/12/2009 03:26:59 PM 1032 Views
Agreed. - 02/12/2009 03:30:50 PM 950 Views
Re: Agreed. - 02/12/2009 03:32:06 PM 948 Views
Re: Intellectual achievement isn't a static measure. - 02/12/2009 09:40:28 PM 1070 Views
I really did get under your skin - 02/12/2009 09:58:18 PM 948 Views
- 02/12/2009 10:06:46 PM 935 Views
Tom as much as you raise some great points, you are being a condescending ass. - 03/12/2009 04:26:27 AM 1004 Views
You're entitled to your opinion. I don't care. - 03/12/2009 04:51:18 AM 980 Views
I keep replying. It's like a sickness. - 03/12/2009 05:15:28 AM 996 Views
Your subject line reinforces my opinion. - 03/12/2009 05:31:50 AM 914 Views
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. *NM* - 03/12/2009 07:21:05 AM 487 Views
LOL! - 04/12/2009 12:21:36 AM 950 Views
See, you just proved my point. - 04/12/2009 12:39:59 AM 991 Views
Hm. - 02/12/2009 06:58:56 AM 1579 Views
Re-read my exact point. - 02/12/2009 02:18:20 PM 959 Views
No. Some kind of reading is indeed essential. - 02/12/2009 02:28:22 PM 1096 Views
Somehow I get the feeling that this post hasn't caused quite as much controversy - 02/12/2009 06:53:18 AM 1095 Views
As I see it... - 02/12/2009 11:38:07 AM 993 Views
Yep. - 02/12/2009 02:18:22 PM 1130 Views
Re: Yep. - 02/12/2009 03:35:38 PM 1015 Views
Euripides was poorly received, initially. - 02/12/2009 03:57:58 PM 907 Views
Re: Euripides was poorly received, initially. - 02/12/2009 04:00:35 PM 947 Views
I know. - 02/12/2009 04:18:16 PM 1016 Views
Re: I know. - 02/12/2009 04:23:14 PM 955 Views
That is why he's so good, in my opinion. - 02/12/2009 06:15:45 PM 1097 Views
All reading of fiction is a diversion by the very nature of the activity. - 02/12/2009 03:43:05 PM 1015 Views
Diversion from direct action, yes. Diversion from reality, no. - 02/12/2009 04:15:48 PM 965 Views
I maintain that all acts of reading fiction are a diversion from reality/ the realistic - 02/12/2009 05:43:16 PM 987 Views
It seems a regressive argument to me. - 03/12/2009 01:18:02 AM 942 Views
You're playing a game. - 03/12/2009 03:40:14 PM 1016 Views
I like your response. *NM* - 03/12/2009 05:37:09 PM 456 Views
I fundamentally agree with much of what you're saying, but there is a distinction. - 03/12/2009 06:44:02 PM 1006 Views
Oh I concur on that distinction. - 04/12/2009 09:06:34 PM 1047 Views
Spec fic is perhaps at it's best in autocracies? - 02/12/2009 04:10:56 PM 940 Views
Bulgakov - 02/12/2009 04:25:17 PM 982 Views
I've only read the first chapter of M&M. - 02/12/2009 04:36:09 PM 957 Views
Re: I've only read the first chapter of M&M. - 02/12/2009 04:40:16 PM 911 Views
Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. - 02/12/2009 05:17:31 PM 949 Views
Re: Not the greatest Tolkien scholar, me. - 02/12/2009 05:40:16 PM 981 Views
I suppose. - 02/12/2009 06:26:30 PM 1002 Views
Re: I suppose. - 02/12/2009 07:25:26 PM 1005 Views
Well, I don't hold escapism in such low esteem *NM* - 02/12/2009 07:56:13 PM 493 Views
That is what I mean - 02/12/2009 08:36:02 PM 929 Views
This was something I was exploring earlier. - 02/12/2009 04:34:41 PM 1035 Views
Funny thing about the hivemind antagonist. - 02/12/2009 05:13:30 PM 1000 Views
I didn't see the zombies reading speculative fiction - 02/12/2009 05:30:26 PM 1081 Views
Oh, they prefer Clive Cussler. - 02/12/2009 06:23:42 PM 1045 Views
i think it comes more down to quality than genre. - 02/12/2009 04:55:20 PM 1013 Views
I disagree with the ultimate conclusion but agree with many of your points. - 02/12/2009 05:43:04 PM 989 Views
the illiad is a classic - 02/12/2009 06:35:24 PM 1011 Views
There's only one "L" in Iliad - 02/12/2009 08:18:38 PM 979 Views
Is there a safe answer to that question? *NM* - 02/12/2009 10:33:21 PM 525 Views
Maybe not. *NM* - 03/12/2009 12:59:09 AM 490 Views
It took me a few minutes to agree - 02/12/2009 07:04:59 PM 966 Views
Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post! - 02/12/2009 09:13:26 PM 973 Views
Re: Well, I'm glad if you got something out of the post! - 02/12/2009 09:20:49 PM 959 Views
I don't know. I've only read about 30 pages so far. *NM* - 02/12/2009 10:05:54 PM 520 Views
Many people have mentioned that there's quite a bit of good sff lit out there and you seem to agree. - 02/12/2009 07:33:42 PM 1092 Views
Hmmm - 02/12/2009 08:40:53 PM 980 Views
Re: Hmmm - 02/12/2009 10:48:02 PM 1005 Views
The website is called "Read and Find Out". It doesn't specify what we're supposed to read. - 02/12/2009 08:42:19 PM 1056 Views
Anti the idea ? I see no evidence for this. - 02/12/2009 09:50:37 PM 1007 Views
Heh - 02/12/2009 09:56:30 PM 1016 Views
What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom - 03/12/2009 11:01:08 AM 987 Views
Re: What do you mean ? Almost all the repliers agree with Tom - 03/12/2009 11:10:35 AM 1002 Views
I see. You don't read announcements. - 03/12/2009 11:12:04 AM 970 Views
No, but it does bill itself as science fiction/fantasy. - 02/12/2009 10:51:41 PM 1099 Views
Yes. - 03/12/2009 12:01:30 AM 1082 Views
I think Rebekah and Camilla put it well. - 02/12/2009 10:05:24 PM 1066 Views
I think they make good points, as I said above. - 02/12/2009 10:56:55 PM 949 Views
I agree with in principle - 02/12/2009 11:22:19 PM 944 Views
Certainly. People are free to skip any discussion. - 03/12/2009 01:01:40 AM 1062 Views
I have a few objections. - 03/12/2009 12:24:43 AM 1021 Views
where else should we talk about it? - 03/12/2009 12:37:26 AM 980 Views
random thoughts stole my subject line - 03/12/2009 01:56:07 AM 1025 Views
I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy - 03/12/2009 02:12:01 AM 1032 Views
Re: I think I could agree with a "comfort food" analogy - 03/12/2009 02:38:17 AM 1085 Views
That's it - 03/12/2009 04:02:28 AM 1086 Views
Question: is it really science fiction without one of the following: - 03/12/2009 05:13:21 AM 1026 Views
Certainly - 03/12/2009 06:13:38 AM 1067 Views
technically speaking, fantasy is classed as a sub heading under science fiction. *NM* - 03/12/2009 02:51:12 PM 420 Views
According to whom? *NM* - 03/12/2009 03:55:45 PM 545 Views
Yeah. What she asked! *NM* - 03/12/2009 09:23:55 PM 510 Views
Yes, it is but actually... - 03/12/2009 09:31:44 PM 1025 Views
Eternal Sunshine doesn't have a mad scientist. - 03/12/2009 10:09:01 PM 937 Views
Really? - 04/12/2009 07:01:42 PM 988 Views
But Dan Brown rocks da house!!! *NM* - 03/12/2009 02:16:47 AM 519 Views
*pumps fist* Give it up for Dan Brown! *NM* - 03/12/2009 03:58:23 AM 508 Views
That's Dan "booyah" Brown!!! Booyah!!! *NM* - 04/12/2009 02:00:56 AM 514 Views
another thing wrong with your argument - 03/12/2009 03:30:19 PM 992 Views
Absolutely not. And, as I said before, there's only one "L" in Iliad. - 03/12/2009 06:53:35 PM 820 Views
sorry about my atrocious spelling (including the one on pertinent) - 03/12/2009 07:14:59 PM 1116 Views
No problem. On the substantive points: - 03/12/2009 08:00:33 PM 1051 Views
more importantly, which I think it being lost in all this, - 03/12/2009 08:05:27 PM 1056 Views
I'm not reading the Iliad again, once was enough - 04/12/2009 12:19:07 PM 976 Views
Congratulations on the replies count - 03/12/2009 09:30:41 PM 1112 Views
That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 03/12/2009 10:50:29 PM 1060 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 04/12/2009 07:44:56 PM 1025 Views
But the objective truth of a setting can be measured. - 04/12/2009 10:37:10 PM 974 Views
But does it make any difference in the objective value of the book? - 06/12/2009 09:35:59 AM 1131 Views
YES. - 06/12/2009 03:34:17 PM 941 Views
NO - 07/12/2009 08:40:33 PM 1020 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 04/12/2009 10:25:08 PM 976 Views
Yes, it is worse with movies. Much worse, in fact. - 04/12/2009 10:33:18 PM 1036 Views
Re: That was a well-thought out response, but I still disagree. - 06/12/2009 09:36:11 AM 980 Views
Maybe we're different, but I don't care for FX - 06/12/2009 01:37:53 PM 923 Views
This is not about the personal taste - 07/12/2009 08:50:34 PM 1028 Views
I've obviously missed the show here... - 04/12/2009 12:14:30 AM 946 Views
I'm not sure that's right. This thing just keeps growing. - 04/12/2009 12:46:24 AM 1073 Views
What, your penis? - 06/12/2009 02:40:09 AM 955 Views
Don't you know it! - 06/12/2009 03:28:16 PM 849 Views
You talk the talk, that's for sure. - 07/12/2009 08:14:41 PM 1009 Views
Hate to break it to you... - 07/12/2009 09:54:24 PM 1050 Views
I thought you were gonna tell me... - 08/12/2009 03:07:54 PM 1117 Views
Metaphor versus literalism - 04/12/2009 05:42:03 PM 1024 Views
aha. but. - 07/12/2009 03:56:48 PM 1155 Views
Quoting Nietzsche is really hitting below the belt. - 07/12/2009 09:12:34 PM 1095 Views
It is good I was only paraphrasing, then - 08/12/2009 10:44:14 AM 988 Views

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