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My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common. Tom Send a noteboard - 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM
Eco himself distinguishes between "light fiction" and "literature", and I've seen countless articles on the dissatisfaction that authors feel when their works are labeled as works of a particular genre. If the case were as clear as you claim, I doubt that would happen. Labels only hurt when they stigmatise (one of the reasons "cracker" never took off, by the way), and the label of "fantasy" or "sci-fi" certainly stings.

The reason, as I stated, is that the genre label is a way of tipping off the would-be reader to the formulaic and derivative nature that the reader is presumably looking for. An author that seeks to write something meaningful and thought-provoking would not like to be seen as formulaic and derivative. Hence, "genre" has become synonymous with "derivative" and "light fiction".

Also, for the record, everyone is ultimately a dilettante when it comes to literature - and not only because most of the English majors are cooking their latest batch of French fries at McDonald's. An English degree (or literature degree) is by itself worthless. I should know this, because I'm actually not a dilettante. I have a degree in Russian Literature, in case you've forgotten.

I find your use of academic catchphrases that really say very little quite funny:

Rather, the trend seems to be going toward recognizing that there are literatures of the mimetic and the speculative that co-exist simultaneously in various genre typologies and that analysis of these literatures has to take on a multi-pronged, more inclusive approach than had been previously the case.

You could have simply said "Consensus is that a speculative genre shouldn't be used as a criterion for excluding a book from the definition of literature". The Economist Style Guide would be the first to tell you to tone down the language to see you haven't said much, could have said it more elegantly and more simply.

If only someone had told Dumas the same thing...
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
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The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas - Book Club now open! - 25/01/2010 10:54:37 PM 2384 Views
Le plot. - 25/01/2010 10:55:26 PM 1159 Views
Plot: demarcation, plan, complot... - 26/01/2010 11:48:19 PM 1276 Views
Les characters. - 25/01/2010 10:56:23 PM 1247 Views
The good, the bad and the ugly. - 26/01/2010 10:54:38 AM 1267 Views
Hmm. - 27/01/2010 03:58:31 PM 1177 Views
Re: Hmm. - 27/01/2010 04:59:12 PM 1246 Views
Re: Hmm. - 28/01/2010 01:40:34 PM 1193 Views
Re: Hmm. - 01/02/2010 12:49:06 PM 1394 Views
Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 25/01/2010 10:57:37 PM 1226 Views
Or rather, does this book share any traits in common with pornography? - 25/01/2010 11:14:01 PM 1332 Views
I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 03:43:04 AM 1256 Views
Re: I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 11:12:19 AM 1320 Views
In that case, the "release" is quite unsatisfying. - 27/01/2010 01:42:28 PM 1415 Views
Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 02:06:58 PM 1303 Views
Oh, and your point on revenge - that's just reading too much into the text. - 27/01/2010 02:16:05 PM 1139 Views
There is no such thing - 27/01/2010 02:18:46 PM 1191 Views
I fundamentally disagree with your post-modern take on the novel. - 27/01/2010 02:25:25 PM 1242 Views
It isn't a postmodern take on it - 27/01/2010 02:41:32 PM 1211 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 03:40:36 PM 1184 Views
Maybe it's of the same importance as the Lost Symbol. - 27/01/2010 03:44:55 PM 1245 Views
If I ddin't know better, I might think you a trifle petulant - 27/01/2010 04:19:57 PM 1300 Views
I'm never petulant - 27/01/2010 04:55:56 PM 1181 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 04:47:37 PM 1281 Views
I think one important question to ask is... - 26/01/2010 12:00:17 AM 1289 Views
I have read the abridged version a couple of times. I am reading the unabridged version this time. - 26/01/2010 03:25:50 AM 1236 Views
the potentially removable part... - 26/01/2010 11:24:16 AM 1305 Views
I have read both - 27/01/2010 01:37:00 AM 1317 Views
The abridged versus the unabridged - 28/01/2010 06:32:22 AM 1230 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 27/01/2010 01:16:47 AM 1353 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 30/01/2010 09:12:22 AM 1249 Views
Re: I got here too late, so I offer Umberto Eco's thoughts on the matter: - 22/02/2010 06:59:13 PM 1414 Views
I'm watching right back, Big Brother. *NM* - 25/01/2010 11:44:30 PM 633 Views
*NM* - 25/01/2010 11:45:27 PM 615 Views
The book was very childish. - 26/01/2010 03:05:01 AM 1353 Views
Granted, The Master and Margarita is also very much a fantasy book. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:07:45 AM 651 Views
No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 03:10:08 AM 1300 Views
You know, this is a problem. - 26/01/2010 03:43:14 AM 1283 Views
There's really nothing I can say to this that Greg didn't just say above. - 26/01/2010 06:32:02 AM 1345 Views
People tend to forget one thing about Tolkien - 26/01/2010 01:36:06 PM 1272 Views
Re: No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 10:57:19 AM 1198 Views
I'll admit the only Lem I've read is Solaris... - 26/01/2010 01:52:02 PM 1296 Views
Read His Master's Voice - 26/01/2010 04:52:31 PM 1212 Views
You make some rather odd claims here, Tom - 27/01/2010 12:43:41 AM 1298 Views
You place undue importance on academic degrees. - 27/01/2010 01:19:40 AM 1282 Views
You misread totally what I said, I see... - 27/01/2010 01:52:59 AM 1203 Views
My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common. - 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM 1263 Views
In some circles; in others, they're rather antiquated nowadays - 27/01/2010 02:21:03 AM 1196 Views
If you were trying to write literature, wouldn't the label sting for you? - 27/01/2010 01:25:14 PM 1255 Views
I think it's easier to think of stories fitting into genre(s) than to think the same of authors - 27/01/2010 02:40:29 PM 1322 Views
Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled. - 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM 1360 Views
But yet their reactions vary widely - 27/01/2010 11:33:25 PM 1238 Views
My fundamental premise is that genre has the most utility when applied to derivative fiction. - 28/01/2010 09:39:17 PM 1224 Views
And yet that term is mostly used as a non-loaded term that doesn't attempt to ascribe quality levels - 29/01/2010 02:49:20 AM 1132 Views
I like my definition of science fiction better than the one you quoted. - 29/01/2010 05:16:36 AM 1198 Views
I think estrangement is a key element, though - 30/01/2010 11:00:19 PM 1178 Views
I don't think estrangement is a necessary element. - 30/01/2010 11:47:07 PM 1376 Views
I mean it as a literary effect, that of creating a distance between text and reader - 31/01/2010 12:03:34 AM 1173 Views
Even if that's the meaning, I still disagree. - 03/02/2010 12:49:58 AM 1177 Views
Depends on how you view SF, I suppose - 03/02/2010 04:20:56 AM 1048 Views
I thought that was what we were mulling over - 03/02/2010 04:38:35 AM 1169 Views
True - 03/02/2010 05:11:19 AM 1111 Views
Nice tie-in! - 03/02/2010 01:55:33 PM 1162 Views
- 05/02/2010 06:06:23 AM 1239 Views
The approve of this message. - 26/01/2010 03:34:49 AM 1273 Views
I'm not through it quite yet, but I do have a question - 26/01/2010 12:24:14 PM 1184 Views
Wait...you VOTED for this book? - 26/01/2010 01:41:00 PM 1250 Views
I honestly can't remember. - 26/01/2010 01:55:39 PM 1203 Views
Doctor Zhivago is one of the best novels ever written. - 26/01/2010 02:12:35 PM 1219 Views
Right, so now we all know that if we'd just listen to me more often, the world would be better. - 26/01/2010 02:20:56 PM 1233 Views
The problem was that the suggestions were generally not that good. - 26/01/2010 02:32:50 PM 1274 Views
Possession is not "purely a romance novel". - 26/01/2010 02:57:17 PM 1385 Views
Which basically proves my entire point. - 26/01/2010 03:00:20 PM 1263 Views
Which is purely a romance novel? - 26/01/2010 02:59:38 PM 1262 Views
Fair enough, it might be a bit tricky to discuss. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:04:58 PM 635 Views
In your opinion - 26/01/2010 03:07:12 PM 1267 Views
Exactly why I avoid suggesting modern books - 26/01/2010 03:10:09 PM 1252 Views
You really are ignornant of what A.S. Byatt writes, aren't you? - 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM 1236 Views
Oh, I fucking hate epistolary novels. Thank you for warning me. - 27/01/2010 02:00:34 AM 1145 Views
Ha! - 27/01/2010 02:22:00 AM 1207 Views
Perhaps I would like it. I still hate epistolary novels. - 27/01/2010 01:26:43 PM 1233 Views
Indeed. *NM* - 26/01/2010 02:01:22 PM 576 Views
It's funny because I think it's a question of taste level. - 26/01/2010 02:32:08 PM 1333 Views
Curious George is a tale of many layers, as told by Werner Herzog - 26/01/2010 02:34:27 PM 1350 Views
I don't care if this validates your opinion of me. - 29/01/2010 11:06:18 PM 1133 Views
On what basis? - 26/01/2010 02:51:40 PM 1287 Views
It's a children's book. Get over it. Democracy failed. - 26/01/2010 02:55:03 PM 1281 Views
Usually does, when those who know better keep silent. - 26/01/2010 02:57:54 PM 1197 Views
I didn't keep silent, though. - 26/01/2010 04:46:48 PM 1270 Views
You're ignoring what we've been discussing. - 27/01/2010 11:11:44 AM 1242 Views
Regarding comfort zones - 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM 1317 Views
Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM 1297 Views
Re: Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 09:10:47 PM 1293 Views
If that's your goal, Camilla, you failed. - 27/01/2010 01:35:52 PM 1358 Views
Possibly - 27/01/2010 01:38:39 PM 1221 Views
I have not been ranting and raving. I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:45:05 PM 1228 Views
Re: I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:53:28 PM 1211 Views
I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:26:12 PM 1348 Views
Don't you get it? We bring this place down. - 27/01/2010 02:42:32 PM 1192 Views
Re: I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:43:11 PM 1208 Views
While that was not the intent, that is an added bonus. - 27/01/2010 02:48:47 PM 1206 Views
why is it a bonus? - 27/01/2010 02:52:58 PM 1172 Views
I said see above. You should have before the thought police, Rebekah, started to delete. - 27/01/2010 02:59:07 PM 1447 Views
I did - 27/01/2010 04:40:25 PM 1230 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM 1264 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:59:31 AM 1215 Views
Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:07:14 PM 1224 Views
Re: Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:09:02 PM 1235 Views
Re: The book was very childish. - 30/01/2010 09:56:29 PM 1236 Views
I read it in French - 30/01/2010 10:54:34 PM 1126 Views
So. I really liked it. - 26/01/2010 08:57:02 AM 1333 Views
Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:04:23 PM 1220 Views
Re: Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:49:03 PM 1253 Views
We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:14:21 AM 1344 Views
Re: We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:37:04 AM 1332 Views
If you do that, I'm posting on the deeper meaning of Dan Brown. - 27/01/2010 01:46:35 PM 1316 Views
Feel free to. - 27/01/2010 01:51:23 PM 1277 Views
Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM 1246 Views
Re: Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:45:41 PM 1263 Views
I'm not setting up a straw man. I'm challenging your touchy-feely approach. - 27/01/2010 03:15:00 PM 1156 Views
My touchy-feely approach? - 27/01/2010 05:09:04 PM 1172 Views
Yes...using passing references in the text to justify a deeper analysis. - 27/01/2010 05:16:10 PM 1226 Views
Doesn't touchy-feely mean that it is steeped in or based on emotion? - 27/01/2010 06:40:31 PM 1186 Views
I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 07:01:08 PM 1199 Views
You summed up my reasons for using "touchy-feely" quite well. - 27/01/2010 07:27:45 PM 1191 Views
Glad to hear it. - 27/01/2010 07:39:20 PM 1077 Views
Re: I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 08:29:32 PM 1256 Views
See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 08:57:18 PM 1303 Views
Re: See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 09:09:47 PM 1213 Views
Well, so what will it be? - 27/01/2010 09:14:53 PM 1160 Views
Er. Whose position are you arguing - mine or yours? - 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM 1093 Views
Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 01:55:23 PM 1335 Views
Re: Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 02:10:04 PM 1232 Views
Right then. - 27/01/2010 02:15:04 PM 1198 Views
All righty, that's enough of that. For Tom, Greg, and... no, pretty much just you two. - 27/01/2010 04:33:00 PM 1261 Views
And ANOTHER THING - 27/01/2010 05:05:17 PM 1134 Views
Not everyone has finished reading it yet *NM* - 27/01/2010 05:12:10 PM 681 Views
Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 05:17:51 PM 1285 Views
Re: Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 06:41:11 PM 1242 Views
We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM 1168 Views
In the interest of discussing Dumas' intentions... - 27/01/2010 08:03:24 PM 1331 Views
It was mildly interesting. - 27/01/2010 09:04:03 PM 1280 Views
I think you're misreading that... - 27/01/2010 10:18:11 PM 1310 Views
Re: We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 08:30:19 PM 1300 Views
The text doesn't warrant "close attention" any more than Dan Brown's works do. - 27/01/2010 09:10:45 PM 1175 Views
fine. *NM* - 27/01/2010 09:12:44 PM 616 Views
Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not. - 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM 1212 Views
What discussion? - 27/01/2010 06:42:32 PM 1243 Views
I said that we couldn't discuss the book on its own terms. - 27/01/2010 07:35:32 PM 1322 Views
Which I still think we can. - 27/01/2010 08:35:35 PM 1201 Views
Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:06:59 PM 1312 Views
Re: Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:12:22 PM 1262 Views
You have yet to show any utility for breaking things down. - 27/01/2010 09:19:29 PM 1322 Views
I haven't tried to show any "utility" for it. - 01/02/2010 01:06:35 PM 1159 Views
I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 27/01/2010 10:40:36 PM 1228 Views
Re: I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 01/02/2010 12:56:03 PM 1137 Views
Deary me. - 27/01/2010 05:19:58 PM 1414 Views
By "respect" do you mean that you want me to drop my debates? - 27/01/2010 05:24:03 PM 1165 Views
Not at all. - 27/01/2010 05:35:34 PM 1358 Views
Okay, I'm cool with that. - 27/01/2010 05:44:54 PM 1328 Views
Thank you. - 27/01/2010 05:48:05 PM 1725 Views
Please ban me, then. - 27/01/2010 06:44:55 PM 1179 Views
Nods - 18/02/2010 05:06:44 PM 1663 Views
Oh man, I love this thread. *NM* - 28/01/2010 01:17:58 AM 601 Views
On the nature of the "Book Club" - 28/01/2010 09:23:23 PM 1080 Views
Any chance of seeing some shorter suggestions? - 28/01/2010 10:20:59 PM 1304 Views
Yes, shorter would be good. - 28/01/2010 10:23:28 PM 1157 Views
Oh i'm not complaining - 28/01/2010 10:33:48 PM 1172 Views
Sure sounded like it. - 28/01/2010 10:38:27 PM 1226 Views
No for reals, shorter is good. - 29/01/2010 01:08:26 AM 1204 Views
Absolutely. - 29/01/2010 03:33:15 AM 1139 Views
Agreed - 29/01/2010 11:26:34 AM 1229 Views
Well, you should have known better! - 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM 1200 Views
I do. - 29/01/2010 08:31:30 PM 1189 Views
Thought you did - 29/01/2010 08:38:39 PM 1170 Views
- 29/01/2010 08:51:42 PM 1201 Views
All I can say is The Master and Margarita better be one by March. WE WAS ROBBED. *NM* - 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM 584 Views
That is the other one that I am considering. *NM* - 29/01/2010 03:32:02 AM 601 Views
I'll re-read Zhivago or Master if either is chosen - 29/01/2010 05:26:02 AM 1157 Views
Talk to me Ghavrel. - 30/01/2010 12:09:24 AM 1110 Views
Well, I haven't finished it yet. - 30/01/2010 02:21:08 AM 1174 Views
Re: On the nature of the "Book Club" - 29/01/2010 12:33:03 PM 1160 Views
I didn't read it for the Book Club - 29/01/2010 12:40:22 AM 1168 Views
Well I'm late to the party - 29/01/2010 06:21:18 AM 1137 Views
No, you're early - 01/02/2010 01:26:10 PM 1038 Views
I still have yet to see that discussion, Camilla. *NM* - 03/02/2010 12:46:24 AM 643 Views
A few comments - 04/02/2010 06:39:18 AM 1478 Views
If I kept you from participating, that's your fault. - 04/02/2010 01:01:46 PM 1128 Views
An interesting quote from the book - does it jibe with your experience? - 29/01/2010 11:23:54 PM 1223 Views
Sure. - 01/02/2010 03:23:59 PM 1180 Views

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