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Plot: demarcation, plan, complot... Camilla Send a noteboard - 26/01/2010 11:48:19 PM
Exciting? Boring? Deathly boring? Terrific? Vengeful?

What'd you think?


All of the above?

Honestly, it s one of the stranger books in that way. In the main it is an entertaining read splattered with tedious, drawn-out scenes of dubious importance or value. I enjoyed reading it again, though. I was occasionally annoyed by the melodrama, but only occasionally. In part this may be because I have read it about every five years or so since I was a kid (in various different versions and languages, some abridged, some not), and reading it is a bit of a nostalgia trip. In part it is because I can never remember what happens. Except that the good come to good and the bad don't.

Since this bit is headed "plot", however, there is something related that strikes me: If plot is a plan, it is central to the book, but more as a motif than a structure, and I find that interesting. The Count's ability to control events is what makes him and the story so fascinating. It is implausible, of course, but that is irrelevant. Part of the premise is that Dantés has, through his suffering and a congruence of more fortunate circumstances, has become a type of person who is that focused and meticulous, and that it is possible. Quibbling about that is a bit like turning on fantasy with the information that magic doesn't really exist.

What really interests me, though, is that how he became that person is one giant ellipsis. Yes, there is Faria, but that is severely undetailed, and even with that the Dantés who leaves Château d'If is nowhere near the later Count. I think it is the existence of these gaps that provides the richness of the novel, and much of its colour.

Regarding the story as it is presented to it, it is highly satisfying on a very visceral level. I disagree with Larry's Eco quote (without having read the whole any time recently) in that I'd say it is less like pornography than like strip tease (admittedly without having any first-hand experience of either). We are promised satisfaction, but the satisfaction would be worth nothing if it were delivered immediately. Of course, this is not limited to this novel or this plot -- it is a trait of most plot-driven narrative, I'd say. The whole point of it is to delay the end while keeping the desire for it alive.

I know I feel the nagging of the unresolved very strongly when reading it. I heartily dislike reading the beginning, though. The worst part of the book is the part before everything goes wrong. Probably because I know what is coming, and part of me strains to stop it. I have no idea why, but it is a very strong emotional reaction. I keep putting the book down. The betrayal really gets to me.

The scenes with Faria are among my favourites (his clear understanding of the circumstances which he has never had first-hand experience of prefigures the Count's uncanny ability to direct circumstances, which I like), but I find I am not moved by the escape at all.

The scene with Franz d'Espinay in the cave, on the contrary, is one of those that I don't forget (did I mention I keep forgetting what happens in this book?). It must have made a massive impression on me the first time I read it (in a shortened version when I was about 10 -- I remember being a bit confused because I did not make the connection between Dantés and the Count).

The same goes for the garden party. I always remember that, but I never remember what happens there or the importance of it as what establishes the Count as someone in control of the circumstances.

And for some reason I always expect Albert and Haidee to end up together. And by expect, I mean that I believe that that is what happened the last time I read it. I swear that is the set-up. The coupling is Valentine-Morrell, Dantés-Mercedes, Albert-Haidee. I think the most interesting part of the whole book is how that pairing is broken. I do not know why it happens, but it keeps surprising and fascinating me. And leaving my visceral reaction to the book oddly unsatisfied. I love it.




*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas - Book Club now open! - 25/01/2010 10:54:37 PM 2812 Views
Le plot. - 25/01/2010 10:55:26 PM 1579 Views
Plot: demarcation, plan, complot... - 26/01/2010 11:48:19 PM 1745 Views
Les characters. - 25/01/2010 10:56:23 PM 1678 Views
The good, the bad and the ugly. - 26/01/2010 10:54:38 AM 1693 Views
Hmm. - 27/01/2010 03:58:31 PM 1624 Views
Re: Hmm. - 27/01/2010 04:59:12 PM 1656 Views
Re: Hmm. - 28/01/2010 01:40:34 PM 1607 Views
Re: Hmm. - 01/02/2010 12:49:06 PM 1827 Views
Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 25/01/2010 10:57:37 PM 1639 Views
Or rather, does this book share any traits in common with pornography? - 25/01/2010 11:14:01 PM 1774 Views
I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 03:43:04 AM 1697 Views
Re: I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 11:12:19 AM 1727 Views
In that case, the "release" is quite unsatisfying. - 27/01/2010 01:42:28 PM 1869 Views
Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 02:06:58 PM 1728 Views
Oh, and your point on revenge - that's just reading too much into the text. - 27/01/2010 02:16:05 PM 1577 Views
There is no such thing - 27/01/2010 02:18:46 PM 1631 Views
I fundamentally disagree with your post-modern take on the novel. - 27/01/2010 02:25:25 PM 1679 Views
It isn't a postmodern take on it - 27/01/2010 02:41:32 PM 1652 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 03:40:36 PM 1636 Views
Maybe it's of the same importance as the Lost Symbol. - 27/01/2010 03:44:55 PM 1686 Views
If I ddin't know better, I might think you a trifle petulant - 27/01/2010 04:19:57 PM 1728 Views
I'm never petulant - 27/01/2010 04:55:56 PM 1576 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 04:47:37 PM 1747 Views
I think one important question to ask is... - 26/01/2010 12:00:17 AM 1728 Views
I have read the abridged version a couple of times. I am reading the unabridged version this time. - 26/01/2010 03:25:50 AM 1686 Views
the potentially removable part... - 26/01/2010 11:24:16 AM 1718 Views
I have read both - 27/01/2010 01:37:00 AM 1741 Views
The abridged versus the unabridged - 28/01/2010 06:32:22 AM 1679 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 27/01/2010 01:16:47 AM 1817 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 30/01/2010 09:12:22 AM 1657 Views
Re: I got here too late, so I offer Umberto Eco's thoughts on the matter: - 22/02/2010 06:59:13 PM 1854 Views
I'm watching right back, Big Brother. *NM* - 25/01/2010 11:44:30 PM 871 Views
*NM* - 25/01/2010 11:45:27 PM 851 Views
The book was very childish. - 26/01/2010 03:05:01 AM 1812 Views
Granted, The Master and Margarita is also very much a fantasy book. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:07:45 AM 895 Views
No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 03:10:08 AM 1715 Views
You know, this is a problem. - 26/01/2010 03:43:14 AM 1716 Views
There's really nothing I can say to this that Greg didn't just say above. - 26/01/2010 06:32:02 AM 1775 Views
People tend to forget one thing about Tolkien - 26/01/2010 01:36:06 PM 1646 Views
Re: No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 10:57:19 AM 1645 Views
I'll admit the only Lem I've read is Solaris... - 26/01/2010 01:52:02 PM 1729 Views
Read His Master's Voice - 26/01/2010 04:52:31 PM 1635 Views
You make some rather odd claims here, Tom - 27/01/2010 12:43:41 AM 1730 Views
You place undue importance on academic degrees. - 27/01/2010 01:19:40 AM 1718 Views
You misread totally what I said, I see... - 27/01/2010 01:52:59 AM 1621 Views
My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common. - 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM 1693 Views
In some circles; in others, they're rather antiquated nowadays - 27/01/2010 02:21:03 AM 1649 Views
If you were trying to write literature, wouldn't the label sting for you? - 27/01/2010 01:25:14 PM 1659 Views
I think it's easier to think of stories fitting into genre(s) than to think the same of authors - 27/01/2010 02:40:29 PM 1745 Views
Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled. - 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM 1782 Views
But yet their reactions vary widely - 27/01/2010 11:33:25 PM 1658 Views
My fundamental premise is that genre has the most utility when applied to derivative fiction. - 28/01/2010 09:39:17 PM 1653 Views
And yet that term is mostly used as a non-loaded term that doesn't attempt to ascribe quality levels - 29/01/2010 02:49:20 AM 1569 Views
I like my definition of science fiction better than the one you quoted. - 29/01/2010 05:16:36 AM 1622 Views
I think estrangement is a key element, though - 30/01/2010 11:00:19 PM 1656 Views
I don't think estrangement is a necessary element. - 30/01/2010 11:47:07 PM 1768 Views
I mean it as a literary effect, that of creating a distance between text and reader - 31/01/2010 12:03:34 AM 1611 Views
Even if that's the meaning, I still disagree. - 03/02/2010 12:49:58 AM 1584 Views
Depends on how you view SF, I suppose - 03/02/2010 04:20:56 AM 1432 Views
I thought that was what we were mulling over - 03/02/2010 04:38:35 AM 1611 Views
True - 03/02/2010 05:11:19 AM 1548 Views
Nice tie-in! - 03/02/2010 01:55:33 PM 1630 Views
- 05/02/2010 06:06:23 AM 1657 Views
The approve of this message. - 26/01/2010 03:34:49 AM 1704 Views
I'm not through it quite yet, but I do have a question - 26/01/2010 12:24:14 PM 1619 Views
Wait...you VOTED for this book? - 26/01/2010 01:41:00 PM 1666 Views
I honestly can't remember. - 26/01/2010 01:55:39 PM 1601 Views
Doctor Zhivago is one of the best novels ever written. - 26/01/2010 02:12:35 PM 1662 Views
Right, so now we all know that if we'd just listen to me more often, the world would be better. - 26/01/2010 02:20:56 PM 1625 Views
The problem was that the suggestions were generally not that good. - 26/01/2010 02:32:50 PM 1684 Views
Possession is not "purely a romance novel". - 26/01/2010 02:57:17 PM 1823 Views
Which basically proves my entire point. - 26/01/2010 03:00:20 PM 1683 Views
Which is purely a romance novel? - 26/01/2010 02:59:38 PM 1684 Views
Fair enough, it might be a bit tricky to discuss. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:04:58 PM 859 Views
In your opinion - 26/01/2010 03:07:12 PM 1713 Views
Exactly why I avoid suggesting modern books - 26/01/2010 03:10:09 PM 1691 Views
You really are ignornant of what A.S. Byatt writes, aren't you? - 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM 1675 Views
Oh, I fucking hate epistolary novels. Thank you for warning me. - 27/01/2010 02:00:34 AM 1569 Views
Ha! - 27/01/2010 02:22:00 AM 1624 Views
Perhaps I would like it. I still hate epistolary novels. - 27/01/2010 01:26:43 PM 1687 Views
Indeed. *NM* - 26/01/2010 02:01:22 PM 839 Views
It's funny because I think it's a question of taste level. - 26/01/2010 02:32:08 PM 1735 Views
Curious George is a tale of many layers, as told by Werner Herzog - 26/01/2010 02:34:27 PM 1799 Views
I don't care if this validates your opinion of me. - 29/01/2010 11:06:18 PM 1544 Views
On what basis? - 26/01/2010 02:51:40 PM 1714 Views
It's a children's book. Get over it. Democracy failed. - 26/01/2010 02:55:03 PM 1739 Views
Usually does, when those who know better keep silent. - 26/01/2010 02:57:54 PM 1639 Views
I didn't keep silent, though. - 26/01/2010 04:46:48 PM 1705 Views
You're ignoring what we've been discussing. - 27/01/2010 11:11:44 AM 1672 Views
Regarding comfort zones - 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM 1721 Views
Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM 1771 Views
Re: Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 09:10:47 PM 1704 Views
If that's your goal, Camilla, you failed. - 27/01/2010 01:35:52 PM 1786 Views
Possibly - 27/01/2010 01:38:39 PM 1626 Views
I have not been ranting and raving. I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:45:05 PM 1650 Views
Re: I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:53:28 PM 1633 Views
I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:26:12 PM 1797 Views
Don't you get it? We bring this place down. - 27/01/2010 02:42:32 PM 1620 Views
Re: I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:43:11 PM 1638 Views
While that was not the intent, that is an added bonus. - 27/01/2010 02:48:47 PM 1629 Views
why is it a bonus? - 27/01/2010 02:52:58 PM 1596 Views
I said see above. You should have before the thought police, Rebekah, started to delete. - 27/01/2010 02:59:07 PM 1880 Views
I did - 27/01/2010 04:40:25 PM 1658 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM 1724 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:59:31 AM 1679 Views
Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:07:14 PM 1628 Views
Re: Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:09:02 PM 1653 Views
Re: The book was very childish. - 30/01/2010 09:56:29 PM 1656 Views
I read it in French - 30/01/2010 10:54:34 PM 1553 Views
So. I really liked it. - 26/01/2010 08:57:02 AM 1817 Views
Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:04:23 PM 1628 Views
Re: Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:49:03 PM 1688 Views
We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:14:21 AM 1766 Views
Re: We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:37:04 AM 1787 Views
If you do that, I'm posting on the deeper meaning of Dan Brown. - 27/01/2010 01:46:35 PM 1747 Views
Feel free to. - 27/01/2010 01:51:23 PM 1725 Views
Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM 1635 Views
Re: Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:45:41 PM 1720 Views
I'm not setting up a straw man. I'm challenging your touchy-feely approach. - 27/01/2010 03:15:00 PM 1552 Views
My touchy-feely approach? - 27/01/2010 05:09:04 PM 1632 Views
Yes...using passing references in the text to justify a deeper analysis. - 27/01/2010 05:16:10 PM 1641 Views
Doesn't touchy-feely mean that it is steeped in or based on emotion? - 27/01/2010 06:40:31 PM 1627 Views
I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 07:01:08 PM 1595 Views
You summed up my reasons for using "touchy-feely" quite well. - 27/01/2010 07:27:45 PM 1627 Views
Glad to hear it. - 27/01/2010 07:39:20 PM 1486 Views
Re: I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 08:29:32 PM 1683 Views
See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 08:57:18 PM 1725 Views
Re: See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 09:09:47 PM 1640 Views
Well, so what will it be? - 27/01/2010 09:14:53 PM 1588 Views
Er. Whose position are you arguing - mine or yours? - 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM 1530 Views
Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 01:55:23 PM 1782 Views
Re: Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 02:10:04 PM 1659 Views
Right then. - 27/01/2010 02:15:04 PM 1624 Views
All righty, that's enough of that. For Tom, Greg, and... no, pretty much just you two. - 27/01/2010 04:33:00 PM 1696 Views
And ANOTHER THING - 27/01/2010 05:05:17 PM 1553 Views
Not everyone has finished reading it yet *NM* - 27/01/2010 05:12:10 PM 928 Views
Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 05:17:51 PM 1718 Views
Re: Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 06:41:11 PM 1669 Views
We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM 1606 Views
In the interest of discussing Dumas' intentions... - 27/01/2010 08:03:24 PM 1769 Views
It was mildly interesting. - 27/01/2010 09:04:03 PM 1701 Views
I think you're misreading that... - 27/01/2010 10:18:11 PM 1752 Views
Re: We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 08:30:19 PM 1744 Views
The text doesn't warrant "close attention" any more than Dan Brown's works do. - 27/01/2010 09:10:45 PM 1616 Views
fine. *NM* - 27/01/2010 09:12:44 PM 861 Views
Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not. - 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM 1655 Views
What discussion? - 27/01/2010 06:42:32 PM 1660 Views
I said that we couldn't discuss the book on its own terms. - 27/01/2010 07:35:32 PM 1747 Views
Which I still think we can. - 27/01/2010 08:35:35 PM 1614 Views
Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:06:59 PM 1713 Views
Re: Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:12:22 PM 1659 Views
You have yet to show any utility for breaking things down. - 27/01/2010 09:19:29 PM 1794 Views
I haven't tried to show any "utility" for it. - 01/02/2010 01:06:35 PM 1585 Views
I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 27/01/2010 10:40:36 PM 1635 Views
Re: I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 01/02/2010 12:56:03 PM 1583 Views
Deary me. - 27/01/2010 05:19:58 PM 1862 Views
By "respect" do you mean that you want me to drop my debates? - 27/01/2010 05:24:03 PM 1620 Views
Not at all. - 27/01/2010 05:35:34 PM 1757 Views
Okay, I'm cool with that. - 27/01/2010 05:44:54 PM 1741 Views
Thank you. - 27/01/2010 05:48:05 PM 2317 Views
Please ban me, then. - 27/01/2010 06:44:55 PM 1584 Views
Nods - 18/02/2010 05:06:44 PM 2090 Views
Oh man, I love this thread. *NM* - 28/01/2010 01:17:58 AM 836 Views
On the nature of the "Book Club" - 28/01/2010 09:23:23 PM 1521 Views
Any chance of seeing some shorter suggestions? - 28/01/2010 10:20:59 PM 1770 Views
Yes, shorter would be good. - 28/01/2010 10:23:28 PM 1593 Views
Oh i'm not complaining - 28/01/2010 10:33:48 PM 1607 Views
Sure sounded like it. - 28/01/2010 10:38:27 PM 1637 Views
No for reals, shorter is good. - 29/01/2010 01:08:26 AM 1628 Views
Absolutely. - 29/01/2010 03:33:15 AM 1582 Views
Agreed - 29/01/2010 11:26:34 AM 1622 Views
Well, you should have known better! - 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM 1619 Views
I do. - 29/01/2010 08:31:30 PM 1609 Views
Thought you did - 29/01/2010 08:38:39 PM 1589 Views
- 29/01/2010 08:51:42 PM 1607 Views
All I can say is The Master and Margarita better be one by March. WE WAS ROBBED. *NM* - 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM 823 Views
That is the other one that I am considering. *NM* - 29/01/2010 03:32:02 AM 846 Views
I'll re-read Zhivago or Master if either is chosen - 29/01/2010 05:26:02 AM 1583 Views
Talk to me Ghavrel. - 30/01/2010 12:09:24 AM 1544 Views
Well, I haven't finished it yet. - 30/01/2010 02:21:08 AM 1613 Views
Re: On the nature of the "Book Club" - 29/01/2010 12:33:03 PM 1545 Views
I didn't read it for the Book Club - 29/01/2010 12:40:22 AM 1603 Views
Well I'm late to the party - 29/01/2010 06:21:18 AM 1597 Views
No, you're early - 01/02/2010 01:26:10 PM 1494 Views
I still have yet to see that discussion, Camilla. *NM* - 03/02/2010 12:46:24 AM 890 Views
A few comments - 04/02/2010 06:39:18 AM 1881 Views
If I kept you from participating, that's your fault. - 04/02/2010 01:01:46 PM 1553 Views
An interesting quote from the book - does it jibe with your experience? - 29/01/2010 11:23:54 PM 1607 Views
Sure. - 01/02/2010 03:23:59 PM 1592 Views

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