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Plot: demarcation, plan, complot... Camilla Send a noteboard - 26/01/2010 11:48:19 PM
Exciting? Boring? Deathly boring? Terrific? Vengeful?

What'd you think?


All of the above?

Honestly, it s one of the stranger books in that way. In the main it is an entertaining read splattered with tedious, drawn-out scenes of dubious importance or value. I enjoyed reading it again, though. I was occasionally annoyed by the melodrama, but only occasionally. In part this may be because I have read it about every five years or so since I was a kid (in various different versions and languages, some abridged, some not), and reading it is a bit of a nostalgia trip. In part it is because I can never remember what happens. Except that the good come to good and the bad don't.

Since this bit is headed "plot", however, there is something related that strikes me: If plot is a plan, it is central to the book, but more as a motif than a structure, and I find that interesting. The Count's ability to control events is what makes him and the story so fascinating. It is implausible, of course, but that is irrelevant. Part of the premise is that Dantés has, through his suffering and a congruence of more fortunate circumstances, has become a type of person who is that focused and meticulous, and that it is possible. Quibbling about that is a bit like turning on fantasy with the information that magic doesn't really exist.

What really interests me, though, is that how he became that person is one giant ellipsis. Yes, there is Faria, but that is severely undetailed, and even with that the Dantés who leaves Château d'If is nowhere near the later Count. I think it is the existence of these gaps that provides the richness of the novel, and much of its colour.

Regarding the story as it is presented to it, it is highly satisfying on a very visceral level. I disagree with Larry's Eco quote (without having read the whole any time recently) in that I'd say it is less like pornography than like strip tease (admittedly without having any first-hand experience of either). We are promised satisfaction, but the satisfaction would be worth nothing if it were delivered immediately. Of course, this is not limited to this novel or this plot -- it is a trait of most plot-driven narrative, I'd say. The whole point of it is to delay the end while keeping the desire for it alive.

I know I feel the nagging of the unresolved very strongly when reading it. I heartily dislike reading the beginning, though. The worst part of the book is the part before everything goes wrong. Probably because I know what is coming, and part of me strains to stop it. I have no idea why, but it is a very strong emotional reaction. I keep putting the book down. The betrayal really gets to me.

The scenes with Faria are among my favourites (his clear understanding of the circumstances which he has never had first-hand experience of prefigures the Count's uncanny ability to direct circumstances, which I like), but I find I am not moved by the escape at all.

The scene with Franz d'Espinay in the cave, on the contrary, is one of those that I don't forget (did I mention I keep forgetting what happens in this book?). It must have made a massive impression on me the first time I read it (in a shortened version when I was about 10 -- I remember being a bit confused because I did not make the connection between Dantés and the Count).

The same goes for the garden party. I always remember that, but I never remember what happens there or the importance of it as what establishes the Count as someone in control of the circumstances.

And for some reason I always expect Albert and Haidee to end up together. And by expect, I mean that I believe that that is what happened the last time I read it. I swear that is the set-up. The coupling is Valentine-Morrell, Dantés-Mercedes, Albert-Haidee. I think the most interesting part of the whole book is how that pairing is broken. I do not know why it happens, but it keeps surprising and fascinating me. And leaving my visceral reaction to the book oddly unsatisfied. I love it.




*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas - Book Club now open! - 25/01/2010 10:54:37 PM 2384 Views
Le plot. - 25/01/2010 10:55:26 PM 1159 Views
Plot: demarcation, plan, complot... - 26/01/2010 11:48:19 PM 1279 Views
Les characters. - 25/01/2010 10:56:23 PM 1248 Views
The good, the bad and the ugly. - 26/01/2010 10:54:38 AM 1267 Views
Hmm. - 27/01/2010 03:58:31 PM 1179 Views
Re: Hmm. - 27/01/2010 04:59:12 PM 1246 Views
Re: Hmm. - 28/01/2010 01:40:34 PM 1194 Views
Re: Hmm. - 01/02/2010 12:49:06 PM 1396 Views
Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 25/01/2010 10:57:37 PM 1226 Views
Or rather, does this book share any traits in common with pornography? - 25/01/2010 11:14:01 PM 1332 Views
I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 03:43:04 AM 1258 Views
Re: I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. - 26/01/2010 11:12:19 AM 1320 Views
In that case, the "release" is quite unsatisfying. - 27/01/2010 01:42:28 PM 1415 Views
Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 02:06:58 PM 1305 Views
Oh, and your point on revenge - that's just reading too much into the text. - 27/01/2010 02:16:05 PM 1141 Views
There is no such thing - 27/01/2010 02:18:46 PM 1193 Views
I fundamentally disagree with your post-modern take on the novel. - 27/01/2010 02:25:25 PM 1244 Views
It isn't a postmodern take on it - 27/01/2010 02:41:32 PM 1213 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 03:40:36 PM 1186 Views
Maybe it's of the same importance as the Lost Symbol. - 27/01/2010 03:44:55 PM 1247 Views
If I ddin't know better, I might think you a trifle petulant - 27/01/2010 04:19:57 PM 1302 Views
I'm never petulant - 27/01/2010 04:55:56 PM 1181 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting - 27/01/2010 04:47:37 PM 1283 Views
I think one important question to ask is... - 26/01/2010 12:00:17 AM 1292 Views
I have read the abridged version a couple of times. I am reading the unabridged version this time. - 26/01/2010 03:25:50 AM 1236 Views
the potentially removable part... - 26/01/2010 11:24:16 AM 1306 Views
I have read both - 27/01/2010 01:37:00 AM 1317 Views
The abridged versus the unabridged - 28/01/2010 06:32:22 AM 1234 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 27/01/2010 01:16:47 AM 1355 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? - 30/01/2010 09:12:22 AM 1252 Views
Re: I got here too late, so I offer Umberto Eco's thoughts on the matter: - 22/02/2010 06:59:13 PM 1416 Views
I'm watching right back, Big Brother. *NM* - 25/01/2010 11:44:30 PM 633 Views
*NM* - 25/01/2010 11:45:27 PM 616 Views
The book was very childish. - 26/01/2010 03:05:01 AM 1354 Views
Granted, The Master and Margarita is also very much a fantasy book. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:07:45 AM 651 Views
No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 03:10:08 AM 1300 Views
You know, this is a problem. - 26/01/2010 03:43:14 AM 1285 Views
There's really nothing I can say to this that Greg didn't just say above. - 26/01/2010 06:32:02 AM 1345 Views
People tend to forget one thing about Tolkien - 26/01/2010 01:36:06 PM 1272 Views
Re: No, it really isn't. - 26/01/2010 10:57:19 AM 1200 Views
I'll admit the only Lem I've read is Solaris... - 26/01/2010 01:52:02 PM 1297 Views
Read His Master's Voice - 26/01/2010 04:52:31 PM 1213 Views
You make some rather odd claims here, Tom - 27/01/2010 12:43:41 AM 1298 Views
You place undue importance on academic degrees. - 27/01/2010 01:19:40 AM 1286 Views
You misread totally what I said, I see... - 27/01/2010 01:52:59 AM 1206 Views
My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common. - 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM 1264 Views
In some circles; in others, they're rather antiquated nowadays - 27/01/2010 02:21:03 AM 1198 Views
If you were trying to write literature, wouldn't the label sting for you? - 27/01/2010 01:25:14 PM 1256 Views
I think it's easier to think of stories fitting into genre(s) than to think the same of authors - 27/01/2010 02:40:29 PM 1324 Views
Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled. - 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM 1362 Views
But yet their reactions vary widely - 27/01/2010 11:33:25 PM 1239 Views
My fundamental premise is that genre has the most utility when applied to derivative fiction. - 28/01/2010 09:39:17 PM 1226 Views
And yet that term is mostly used as a non-loaded term that doesn't attempt to ascribe quality levels - 29/01/2010 02:49:20 AM 1133 Views
I like my definition of science fiction better than the one you quoted. - 29/01/2010 05:16:36 AM 1200 Views
I think estrangement is a key element, though - 30/01/2010 11:00:19 PM 1178 Views
I don't think estrangement is a necessary element. - 30/01/2010 11:47:07 PM 1376 Views
I mean it as a literary effect, that of creating a distance between text and reader - 31/01/2010 12:03:34 AM 1176 Views
Even if that's the meaning, I still disagree. - 03/02/2010 12:49:58 AM 1177 Views
Depends on how you view SF, I suppose - 03/02/2010 04:20:56 AM 1049 Views
I thought that was what we were mulling over - 03/02/2010 04:38:35 AM 1171 Views
True - 03/02/2010 05:11:19 AM 1111 Views
Nice tie-in! - 03/02/2010 01:55:33 PM 1163 Views
- 05/02/2010 06:06:23 AM 1240 Views
The approve of this message. - 26/01/2010 03:34:49 AM 1273 Views
I'm not through it quite yet, but I do have a question - 26/01/2010 12:24:14 PM 1184 Views
Wait...you VOTED for this book? - 26/01/2010 01:41:00 PM 1252 Views
I honestly can't remember. - 26/01/2010 01:55:39 PM 1205 Views
Doctor Zhivago is one of the best novels ever written. - 26/01/2010 02:12:35 PM 1221 Views
Right, so now we all know that if we'd just listen to me more often, the world would be better. - 26/01/2010 02:20:56 PM 1233 Views
The problem was that the suggestions were generally not that good. - 26/01/2010 02:32:50 PM 1275 Views
Possession is not "purely a romance novel". - 26/01/2010 02:57:17 PM 1388 Views
Which basically proves my entire point. - 26/01/2010 03:00:20 PM 1265 Views
Which is purely a romance novel? - 26/01/2010 02:59:38 PM 1264 Views
Fair enough, it might be a bit tricky to discuss. *NM* - 26/01/2010 03:04:58 PM 635 Views
In your opinion - 26/01/2010 03:07:12 PM 1269 Views
Exactly why I avoid suggesting modern books - 26/01/2010 03:10:09 PM 1254 Views
You really are ignornant of what A.S. Byatt writes, aren't you? - 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM 1238 Views
Oh, I fucking hate epistolary novels. Thank you for warning me. - 27/01/2010 02:00:34 AM 1147 Views
Ha! - 27/01/2010 02:22:00 AM 1208 Views
Perhaps I would like it. I still hate epistolary novels. - 27/01/2010 01:26:43 PM 1233 Views
Indeed. *NM* - 26/01/2010 02:01:22 PM 576 Views
It's funny because I think it's a question of taste level. - 26/01/2010 02:32:08 PM 1333 Views
Curious George is a tale of many layers, as told by Werner Herzog - 26/01/2010 02:34:27 PM 1350 Views
I don't care if this validates your opinion of me. - 29/01/2010 11:06:18 PM 1133 Views
On what basis? - 26/01/2010 02:51:40 PM 1289 Views
It's a children's book. Get over it. Democracy failed. - 26/01/2010 02:55:03 PM 1283 Views
Usually does, when those who know better keep silent. - 26/01/2010 02:57:54 PM 1199 Views
I didn't keep silent, though. - 26/01/2010 04:46:48 PM 1272 Views
You're ignoring what we've been discussing. - 27/01/2010 11:11:44 AM 1242 Views
Regarding comfort zones - 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM 1319 Views
Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM 1298 Views
Re: Camilla, let's be honest here... - 26/01/2010 09:10:47 PM 1295 Views
If that's your goal, Camilla, you failed. - 27/01/2010 01:35:52 PM 1358 Views
Possibly - 27/01/2010 01:38:39 PM 1223 Views
I have not been ranting and raving. I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:45:05 PM 1229 Views
Re: I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. - 27/01/2010 01:53:28 PM 1213 Views
I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:26:12 PM 1350 Views
Don't you get it? We bring this place down. - 27/01/2010 02:42:32 PM 1194 Views
Re: I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. - 27/01/2010 02:43:11 PM 1210 Views
While that was not the intent, that is an added bonus. - 27/01/2010 02:48:47 PM 1208 Views
why is it a bonus? - 27/01/2010 02:52:58 PM 1174 Views
I said see above. You should have before the thought police, Rebekah, started to delete. - 27/01/2010 02:59:07 PM 1449 Views
I did - 27/01/2010 04:40:25 PM 1232 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM 1266 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones - 27/01/2010 11:59:31 AM 1217 Views
Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:07:14 PM 1224 Views
Re: Halfway - 27/01/2010 12:09:02 PM 1235 Views
Re: The book was very childish. - 30/01/2010 09:56:29 PM 1238 Views
I read it in French - 30/01/2010 10:54:34 PM 1128 Views
So. I really liked it. - 26/01/2010 08:57:02 AM 1336 Views
Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:04:23 PM 1222 Views
Re: Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. - 26/01/2010 11:49:03 PM 1255 Views
We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:14:21 AM 1344 Views
Re: We were talking about this last night. - 27/01/2010 11:37:04 AM 1332 Views
If you do that, I'm posting on the deeper meaning of Dan Brown. - 27/01/2010 01:46:35 PM 1318 Views
Feel free to. - 27/01/2010 01:51:23 PM 1279 Views
Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM 1248 Views
Re: Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. - 27/01/2010 02:45:41 PM 1265 Views
I'm not setting up a straw man. I'm challenging your touchy-feely approach. - 27/01/2010 03:15:00 PM 1158 Views
My touchy-feely approach? - 27/01/2010 05:09:04 PM 1172 Views
Yes...using passing references in the text to justify a deeper analysis. - 27/01/2010 05:16:10 PM 1226 Views
Doesn't touchy-feely mean that it is steeped in or based on emotion? - 27/01/2010 06:40:31 PM 1188 Views
I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 07:01:08 PM 1201 Views
You summed up my reasons for using "touchy-feely" quite well. - 27/01/2010 07:27:45 PM 1193 Views
Glad to hear it. - 27/01/2010 07:39:20 PM 1079 Views
Re: I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. - 27/01/2010 08:29:32 PM 1256 Views
See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 08:57:18 PM 1305 Views
Re: See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. - 27/01/2010 09:09:47 PM 1214 Views
Well, so what will it be? - 27/01/2010 09:14:53 PM 1162 Views
Er. Whose position are you arguing - mine or yours? - 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM 1094 Views
Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 01:55:23 PM 1336 Views
Re: Do it. I'd read that. - 27/01/2010 02:10:04 PM 1234 Views
Right then. - 27/01/2010 02:15:04 PM 1200 Views
All righty, that's enough of that. For Tom, Greg, and... no, pretty much just you two. - 27/01/2010 04:33:00 PM 1263 Views
And ANOTHER THING - 27/01/2010 05:05:17 PM 1134 Views
Not everyone has finished reading it yet *NM* - 27/01/2010 05:12:10 PM 681 Views
Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 05:17:51 PM 1285 Views
Re: Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. - 27/01/2010 06:41:11 PM 1242 Views
We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM 1170 Views
In the interest of discussing Dumas' intentions... - 27/01/2010 08:03:24 PM 1333 Views
It was mildly interesting. - 27/01/2010 09:04:03 PM 1280 Views
I think you're misreading that... - 27/01/2010 10:18:11 PM 1311 Views
Re: We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. - 27/01/2010 08:30:19 PM 1300 Views
The text doesn't warrant "close attention" any more than Dan Brown's works do. - 27/01/2010 09:10:45 PM 1176 Views
fine. *NM* - 27/01/2010 09:12:44 PM 616 Views
Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not. - 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM 1212 Views
What discussion? - 27/01/2010 06:42:32 PM 1244 Views
I said that we couldn't discuss the book on its own terms. - 27/01/2010 07:35:32 PM 1324 Views
Which I still think we can. - 27/01/2010 08:35:35 PM 1201 Views
Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:06:59 PM 1312 Views
Re: Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. - 27/01/2010 09:12:22 PM 1262 Views
You have yet to show any utility for breaking things down. - 27/01/2010 09:19:29 PM 1323 Views
I haven't tried to show any "utility" for it. - 01/02/2010 01:06:35 PM 1161 Views
I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 27/01/2010 10:40:36 PM 1230 Views
Re: I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. - 01/02/2010 12:56:03 PM 1138 Views
Deary me. - 27/01/2010 05:19:58 PM 1415 Views
By "respect" do you mean that you want me to drop my debates? - 27/01/2010 05:24:03 PM 1166 Views
Not at all. - 27/01/2010 05:35:34 PM 1358 Views
Okay, I'm cool with that. - 27/01/2010 05:44:54 PM 1328 Views
Thank you. - 27/01/2010 05:48:05 PM 1725 Views
Please ban me, then. - 27/01/2010 06:44:55 PM 1179 Views
Nods - 18/02/2010 05:06:44 PM 1663 Views
Oh man, I love this thread. *NM* - 28/01/2010 01:17:58 AM 601 Views
On the nature of the "Book Club" - 28/01/2010 09:23:23 PM 1081 Views
Any chance of seeing some shorter suggestions? - 28/01/2010 10:20:59 PM 1306 Views
Yes, shorter would be good. - 28/01/2010 10:23:28 PM 1157 Views
Oh i'm not complaining - 28/01/2010 10:33:48 PM 1173 Views
Sure sounded like it. - 28/01/2010 10:38:27 PM 1227 Views
No for reals, shorter is good. - 29/01/2010 01:08:26 AM 1204 Views
Absolutely. - 29/01/2010 03:33:15 AM 1139 Views
Agreed - 29/01/2010 11:26:34 AM 1230 Views
Well, you should have known better! - 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM 1203 Views
I do. - 29/01/2010 08:31:30 PM 1191 Views
Thought you did - 29/01/2010 08:38:39 PM 1170 Views
- 29/01/2010 08:51:42 PM 1201 Views
All I can say is The Master and Margarita better be one by March. WE WAS ROBBED. *NM* - 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM 584 Views
That is the other one that I am considering. *NM* - 29/01/2010 03:32:02 AM 601 Views
I'll re-read Zhivago or Master if either is chosen - 29/01/2010 05:26:02 AM 1159 Views
Talk to me Ghavrel. - 30/01/2010 12:09:24 AM 1110 Views
Well, I haven't finished it yet. - 30/01/2010 02:21:08 AM 1174 Views
Re: On the nature of the "Book Club" - 29/01/2010 12:33:03 PM 1162 Views
I didn't read it for the Book Club - 29/01/2010 12:40:22 AM 1168 Views
Well I'm late to the party - 29/01/2010 06:21:18 AM 1139 Views
No, you're early - 01/02/2010 01:26:10 PM 1040 Views
I still have yet to see that discussion, Camilla. *NM* - 03/02/2010 12:46:24 AM 643 Views
A few comments - 04/02/2010 06:39:18 AM 1480 Views
If I kept you from participating, that's your fault. - 04/02/2010 01:01:46 PM 1128 Views
An interesting quote from the book - does it jibe with your experience? - 29/01/2010 11:23:54 PM 1225 Views
Sure. - 01/02/2010 03:23:59 PM 1182 Views

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