I'm sure it's there, but it's there as a throw-away point. It's never really dealt with.
That is my point! Like a true novel, it does not dictate one of the voices and the correct one. If you want clear cut morals read Richardson or some such. This one merely sets the question in circulation without resolving it. I like that.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas - Book Club now open!
- 25/01/2010 10:54:37 PM
2938 Views
Les characters.
- 25/01/2010 10:56:23 PM
1787 Views
Why does the book have enduring appeal?
- 25/01/2010 10:57:37 PM
1762 Views
Or rather, does this book share any traits in common with pornography?
- 25/01/2010 11:14:01 PM
1950 Views
I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak.
- 26/01/2010 03:43:04 AM
1814 Views
Re: I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak.
- 26/01/2010 11:12:19 AM
1841 Views
In that case, the "release" is quite unsatisfying.
- 27/01/2010 01:42:28 PM
2002 Views
Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting
- 27/01/2010 02:06:58 PM
1869 Views
He would not have known the book would be ruined by water. He thought he was being buried.
- 27/01/2010 02:15:02 PM
1731 Views
Oh, and your point on revenge - that's just reading too much into the text.
- 27/01/2010 02:16:05 PM
1692 Views
There is no such thing
- 27/01/2010 02:18:46 PM
1738 Views
I fundamentally disagree with your post-modern take on the novel.
- 27/01/2010 02:25:25 PM
1811 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting
- 27/01/2010 03:40:36 PM
1767 Views
Maybe it's of the same importance as the Lost Symbol.
- 27/01/2010 03:44:55 PM
1813 Views
I think one important question to ask is...
- 26/01/2010 12:00:17 AM
1837 Views
I like it, but it is purely on the adventure story level, and I've read the unabridged version.
- 26/01/2010 12:03:01 AM
1658 Views
I'm fairly certain I read the unabridged version. It was 1500 pages. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 02:36:10 AM
944 Views
I have read the abridged version a couple of times. I am reading the unabridged version this time.
- 26/01/2010 03:25:50 AM
1805 Views
I have read both
- 27/01/2010 01:37:00 AM
1849 Views
I actually didn't mean the people here on the site so much as readers in general.
- 27/01/2010 01:44:46 AM
1830 Views
Re: I actually didn't mean the people here on the site so much as readers in general.
- 27/01/2010 01:48:11 AM
1813 Views
Re: I got here too late, so I offer Umberto Eco's thoughts on the matter:
- 22/02/2010 06:59:13 PM
2001 Views
The book was very childish.
- 26/01/2010 03:05:01 AM
1933 Views
Granted, The Master and Margarita is also very much a fantasy book. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 03:07:45 AM
961 Views
No, it really isn't.
- 26/01/2010 03:10:08 AM
1825 Views
You know, this is a problem.
- 26/01/2010 03:43:14 AM
1831 Views
Thank God, I've never even heard of "Skol". Popov, yes, but Skol?
- 26/01/2010 03:49:08 AM
1813 Views
I've not tried it, but every time I go into liquor stores, it sits on the bottom shelf.
- 26/01/2010 03:57:03 AM
1724 Views
There's really nothing I can say to this that Greg didn't just say above.
- 26/01/2010 06:32:02 AM
1897 Views
Re: No, it really isn't.
- 26/01/2010 10:57:19 AM
1759 Views
Having Camilla concur with me on literary matters is very encouraging. 
- 26/01/2010 01:37:23 PM
1822 Views
- 26/01/2010 01:37:23 PM
1822 Views
I do not agree with your complete dismissal of The Count of Monte Cristo, though
- 26/01/2010 04:58:58 PM
1810 Views
You make some rather odd claims here, Tom
- 27/01/2010 12:43:41 AM
1859 Views
My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common.
- 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM
1818 Views
In some circles; in others, they're rather antiquated nowadays
- 27/01/2010 02:21:03 AM
1765 Views
If you were trying to write literature, wouldn't the label sting for you?
- 27/01/2010 01:25:14 PM
1778 Views
I think it's easier to think of stories fitting into genre(s) than to think the same of authors
- 27/01/2010 02:40:29 PM
1875 Views
Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled.
- 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM
1905 Views
But yet their reactions vary widely
- 27/01/2010 11:33:25 PM
1799 Views
My fundamental premise is that genre has the most utility when applied to derivative fiction.
- 28/01/2010 09:39:17 PM
1783 Views
And yet that term is mostly used as a non-loaded term that doesn't attempt to ascribe quality levels
- 29/01/2010 02:49:20 AM
1698 Views
I like my definition of science fiction better than the one you quoted.
- 29/01/2010 05:16:36 AM
1757 Views
I think estrangement is a key element, though
- 30/01/2010 11:00:19 PM
1777 Views
I don't think estrangement is a necessary element.
- 30/01/2010 11:47:07 PM
1873 Views
I mean it as a literary effect, that of creating a distance between text and reader
- 31/01/2010 12:03:34 AM
1764 Views
Even if that's the meaning, I still disagree.
- 03/02/2010 12:49:58 AM
1699 Views
Depends on how you view SF, I suppose
- 03/02/2010 04:20:56 AM
1545 Views
I thought that was what we were mulling over
- 03/02/2010 04:38:35 AM
1735 Views
Your unscientific anecdotal evidence sounds very odd to me.
- 28/01/2010 12:15:10 AM
1804 Views
It might. I'm not purporting to speak for all of humanity (at least on this point). 
- 28/01/2010 09:43:40 PM
1838 Views
- 28/01/2010 09:43:40 PM
1838 Views
approve of this message.
So, what you're saying is that watching the 2002 movie was sufficient? Good! *NM*
- 26/01/2010 06:34:53 AM
945 Views
*NM*
- 26/01/2010 06:34:53 AM
945 Views
I'm not through it quite yet, but I do have a question
- 26/01/2010 12:24:14 PM
1729 Views
Wait...you VOTED for this book?
- 26/01/2010 01:41:00 PM
1777 Views
I honestly can't remember.
- 26/01/2010 01:55:39 PM
1734 Views
Doctor Zhivago is one of the best novels ever written.
- 26/01/2010 02:12:35 PM
1798 Views
Right, so now we all know that if we'd just listen to me more often, the world would be better.
- 26/01/2010 02:20:56 PM
1742 Views
The problem was that the suggestions were generally not that good.
- 26/01/2010 02:32:50 PM
1811 Views
You really are ignornant of what A.S. Byatt writes, aren't you?
- 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM
1799 Views
- 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM
1799 Views
Oh, I fucking hate epistolary novels. Thank you for warning me.
- 27/01/2010 02:00:34 AM
1682 Views
It's funny because I think it's a question of taste level.
- 26/01/2010 02:32:08 PM
1841 Views
Curious George is a tale of many layers, as told by Werner Herzog
- 26/01/2010 02:34:27 PM
1909 Views
On what basis?
- 26/01/2010 02:51:40 PM
1818 Views
It's a children's book. Get over it. Democracy failed.
- 26/01/2010 02:55:03 PM
1862 Views
Usually does, when those who know better keep silent.
- 26/01/2010 02:57:54 PM
1762 Views
Regarding comfort zones
- 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM
1859 Views
Camilla, let's be honest here...
- 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM
1896 Views
Re: Camilla, let's be honest here...
- 26/01/2010 09:10:47 PM
1900 Views
If that's your goal, Camilla, you failed.
- 27/01/2010 01:35:52 PM
1914 Views
Possibly
- 27/01/2010 01:38:39 PM
1739 Views
I have not been ranting and raving. I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification.
- 27/01/2010 01:45:05 PM
1780 Views
Re: I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification.
- 27/01/2010 01:53:28 PM
1740 Views
I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg.
- 27/01/2010 02:26:12 PM
1901 Views
Don't you get it? We bring this place down.
- 27/01/2010 02:42:32 PM
1743 Views
Heh heh heh. Pink cardigan-wearing suburban cul-de-sac. I like it. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 03:11:25 PM
905 Views
*NM*
- 27/01/2010 03:11:25 PM
905 Views
Re: I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg.
- 27/01/2010 02:43:11 PM
1749 Views
While that was not the intent, that is an added bonus.
- 27/01/2010 02:48:47 PM
1742 Views
why is it a bonus?
- 27/01/2010 02:52:58 PM
1702 Views
I said see above. You should have before the thought police, Rebekah, started to delete.
- 27/01/2010 02:59:07 PM
2000 Views
Well, you wouldn't grow tired of us calling a novel shit if you chose a novel that wasn't shit.
- 27/01/2010 03:11:57 PM
1718 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones
- 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM
1861 Views
So. I really liked it.
- 26/01/2010 08:57:02 AM
1942 Views
Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand.
- 26/01/2010 11:04:23 PM
1750 Views
Re: Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand.
- 26/01/2010 11:49:03 PM
1801 Views
We were talking about this last night.
- 27/01/2010 11:14:21 AM
1879 Views
Re: We were talking about this last night.
- 27/01/2010 11:37:04 AM
1916 Views
If you do that, I'm posting on the deeper meaning of Dan Brown.
- 27/01/2010 01:46:35 PM
1856 Views
Feel free to.
- 27/01/2010 01:51:23 PM
1839 Views
Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit.
- 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM
1769 Views
Re: Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit.
- 27/01/2010 02:45:41 PM
1849 Views
I'm not setting up a straw man. I'm challenging your touchy-feely approach.
- 27/01/2010 03:15:00 PM
1692 Views
My touchy-feely approach?
- 27/01/2010 05:09:04 PM
1790 Views
Yes...using passing references in the text to justify a deeper analysis.
- 27/01/2010 05:16:10 PM
1778 Views
Doesn't touchy-feely mean that it is steeped in or based on emotion?
- 27/01/2010 06:40:31 PM
1775 Views
I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here.
- 27/01/2010 07:01:08 PM
1717 Views
Re: I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here.
- 27/01/2010 08:29:32 PM
1806 Views
See my reply to Tom for clarification, then.
- 27/01/2010 08:57:18 PM
1880 Views
Re: See my reply to Tom for clarification, then.
- 27/01/2010 09:09:47 PM
1776 Views
Er. Whose position are you arguing - mine or yours?
- 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM
1657 Views
- 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM
1657 Views
Mine. Which is more complicated than a simple rejection. That is what I am saying.
- 01/02/2010 12:53:58 PM
1695 Views
Do it. I'd read that.
- 27/01/2010 01:55:23 PM
1893 Views
All righty, that's enough of that. For Tom, Greg, and... no, pretty much just you two.
- 27/01/2010 04:33:00 PM
1838 Views
I call bullshit. I have been conducting the debate in a measured fashion.
- 27/01/2010 04:50:35 PM
1780 Views
And ANOTHER THING
- 27/01/2010 05:05:17 PM
1663 Views
Not everyone has finished reading it yet *NM*
- 27/01/2010 05:12:10 PM
1001 Views
Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing.
- 27/01/2010 05:17:51 PM
1832 Views
Re: Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing.
- 27/01/2010 06:41:11 PM
1818 Views
We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults.
- 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM
1715 Views
In the interest of discussing Dumas' intentions...
- 27/01/2010 08:03:24 PM
1878 Views
Re: We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults.
- 27/01/2010 08:30:19 PM
1856 Views
The text doesn't warrant "close attention" any more than Dan Brown's works do.
- 27/01/2010 09:10:45 PM
1727 Views
Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not.
- 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM
1772 Views
What discussion?
- 27/01/2010 06:42:32 PM
1774 Views
I said that we couldn't discuss the book on its own terms.
- 27/01/2010 07:35:32 PM
1918 Views
Which I still think we can.
- 27/01/2010 08:35:35 PM
1756 Views
Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all.
- 27/01/2010 09:06:59 PM
1826 Views
Re: Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all.
- 27/01/2010 09:12:22 PM
1786 Views
I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on.
- 27/01/2010 10:40:36 PM
1781 Views
Re: I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on.
- 01/02/2010 12:56:03 PM
1738 Views
Deary me.
- 27/01/2010 05:19:58 PM
1973 Views
By "respect" do you mean that you want me to drop my debates?
- 27/01/2010 05:24:03 PM
1731 Views
Not at all.
- 27/01/2010 05:35:34 PM
1889 Views
I'm sorry as well - if I had any kind of willpower, it wouldn't have gotten that far.
- 27/01/2010 06:29:43 PM
1800 Views
On the nature of the "Book Club"
- 28/01/2010 09:23:23 PM
1646 Views
Any chance of seeing some shorter suggestions?
- 28/01/2010 10:20:59 PM
1876 Views
Yes, shorter would be good.
- 28/01/2010 10:23:28 PM
1703 Views
Well, you should have known better!
- 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM
1742 Views
- 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM
1742 Views
All I can say is The Master and Margarita better be one by March. WE WAS ROBBED. *NM*
- 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM
892 Views
*NM*
- 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM
892 Views
Well I'm late to the party
- 29/01/2010 06:21:18 AM
1713 Views
No, you're early
- 01/02/2010 01:26:10 PM
1643 Views
I still have yet to see that discussion, Camilla. *NM*
- 03/02/2010 12:46:24 AM
953 Views
Interesting way of dismissing what has already been discussed about the book
- 03/02/2010 04:22:26 AM
1861 Views
Nah, there's been discussion, here and there inbetween the fighting. *NM*
- 03/02/2010 04:39:24 PM
891 Views
*NM*
- 03/02/2010 04:39:24 PM
891 Views
An interesting quote from the book - does it jibe with your experience?
- 29/01/2010 11:23:54 PM
1745 Views