A bad book (and Monte Cristo is certainly "bad" in terms of style, depth of writing, character development and a whole host of other criteria) allows us to have a much more interesting debate. Larry and I are back to discussing genre, the contrast between light fiction and literature and the relative worth of critical literary theory. You and I are arguing over whether or not a relativist approach to literature is valid. Isn't that, ultimately, the POINT of this site? To talk about books and literature? Aren't we doing exactly what we're here to do???
You were the one claiming that this whole book club was a stupid idea because there was nothing that could be said about the book.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas - Book Club now open!
- 25/01/2010 10:54:37 PM
2812 Views
Les characters.
- 25/01/2010 10:56:23 PM
1677 Views
Why does the book have enduring appeal?
- 25/01/2010 10:57:37 PM
1639 Views
Or rather, does this book share any traits in common with pornography?
- 25/01/2010 11:14:01 PM
1774 Views
I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak.
- 26/01/2010 03:43:04 AM
1697 Views
Re: I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak.
- 26/01/2010 11:12:19 AM
1727 Views
In that case, the "release" is quite unsatisfying.
- 27/01/2010 01:42:28 PM
1869 Views
Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting
- 27/01/2010 02:06:58 PM
1728 Views
He would not have known the book would be ruined by water. He thought he was being buried.
- 27/01/2010 02:15:02 PM
1622 Views
Oh, and your point on revenge - that's just reading too much into the text.
- 27/01/2010 02:16:05 PM
1577 Views
There is no such thing
- 27/01/2010 02:18:46 PM
1631 Views
I fundamentally disagree with your post-modern take on the novel.
- 27/01/2010 02:25:25 PM
1679 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting
- 27/01/2010 03:40:36 PM
1636 Views
Maybe it's of the same importance as the Lost Symbol.
- 27/01/2010 03:44:55 PM
1686 Views
I think one important question to ask is...
- 26/01/2010 12:00:17 AM
1728 Views
I like it, but it is purely on the adventure story level, and I've read the unabridged version.
- 26/01/2010 12:03:01 AM
1540 Views
I'm fairly certain I read the unabridged version. It was 1500 pages. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 02:36:10 AM
871 Views
I have read the abridged version a couple of times. I am reading the unabridged version this time.
- 26/01/2010 03:25:50 AM
1686 Views
I have read both
- 27/01/2010 01:37:00 AM
1740 Views
I actually didn't mean the people here on the site so much as readers in general.
- 27/01/2010 01:44:46 AM
1724 Views
Re: I actually didn't mean the people here on the site so much as readers in general.
- 27/01/2010 01:48:11 AM
1673 Views
Re: I got here too late, so I offer Umberto Eco's thoughts on the matter:
- 22/02/2010 06:59:13 PM
1854 Views
The book was very childish.
- 26/01/2010 03:05:01 AM
1812 Views
Granted, The Master and Margarita is also very much a fantasy book. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 03:07:45 AM
895 Views
No, it really isn't.
- 26/01/2010 03:10:08 AM
1715 Views
You know, this is a problem.
- 26/01/2010 03:43:14 AM
1715 Views
Thank God, I've never even heard of "Skol". Popov, yes, but Skol?
- 26/01/2010 03:49:08 AM
1688 Views
I've not tried it, but every time I go into liquor stores, it sits on the bottom shelf.
- 26/01/2010 03:57:03 AM
1592 Views
There's really nothing I can say to this that Greg didn't just say above.
- 26/01/2010 06:32:02 AM
1775 Views
Re: No, it really isn't.
- 26/01/2010 10:57:19 AM
1645 Views
Having Camilla concur with me on literary matters is very encouraging.
- 26/01/2010 01:37:23 PM
1699 Views
- 26/01/2010 01:37:23 PM
1699 Views
I do not agree with your complete dismissal of The Count of Monte Cristo, though
- 26/01/2010 04:58:58 PM
1698 Views
You make some rather odd claims here, Tom
- 27/01/2010 12:43:41 AM
1730 Views
My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common.
- 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM
1693 Views
In some circles; in others, they're rather antiquated nowadays
- 27/01/2010 02:21:03 AM
1649 Views
If you were trying to write literature, wouldn't the label sting for you?
- 27/01/2010 01:25:14 PM
1659 Views
I think it's easier to think of stories fitting into genre(s) than to think the same of authors
- 27/01/2010 02:40:29 PM
1745 Views
Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled.
- 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM
1782 Views
But yet their reactions vary widely
- 27/01/2010 11:33:25 PM
1658 Views
My fundamental premise is that genre has the most utility when applied to derivative fiction.
- 28/01/2010 09:39:17 PM
1653 Views
And yet that term is mostly used as a non-loaded term that doesn't attempt to ascribe quality levels
- 29/01/2010 02:49:20 AM
1569 Views
I like my definition of science fiction better than the one you quoted.
- 29/01/2010 05:16:36 AM
1622 Views
I think estrangement is a key element, though
- 30/01/2010 11:00:19 PM
1656 Views
I don't think estrangement is a necessary element.
- 30/01/2010 11:47:07 PM
1768 Views
I mean it as a literary effect, that of creating a distance between text and reader
- 31/01/2010 12:03:34 AM
1611 Views
Even if that's the meaning, I still disagree.
- 03/02/2010 12:49:58 AM
1584 Views
Depends on how you view SF, I suppose
- 03/02/2010 04:20:56 AM
1432 Views
I thought that was what we were mulling over
- 03/02/2010 04:38:35 AM
1611 Views
Your unscientific anecdotal evidence sounds very odd to me.
- 28/01/2010 12:15:10 AM
1660 Views
It might. I'm not purporting to speak for all of humanity (at least on this point).
- 28/01/2010 09:43:40 PM
1726 Views
- 28/01/2010 09:43:40 PM
1726 Views
So, what you're saying is that watching the 2002 movie was sufficient? Good!
*NM*
- 26/01/2010 06:34:53 AM
860 Views
*NM*
- 26/01/2010 06:34:53 AM
860 Views
I'm not through it quite yet, but I do have a question
- 26/01/2010 12:24:14 PM
1618 Views
Wait...you VOTED for this book?
- 26/01/2010 01:41:00 PM
1666 Views
I honestly can't remember.
- 26/01/2010 01:55:39 PM
1601 Views
Doctor Zhivago is one of the best novels ever written.
- 26/01/2010 02:12:35 PM
1662 Views
Right, so now we all know that if we'd just listen to me more often, the world would be better.
- 26/01/2010 02:20:56 PM
1625 Views
The problem was that the suggestions were generally not that good.
- 26/01/2010 02:32:50 PM
1684 Views
You really are ignornant of what A.S. Byatt writes, aren't you?
- 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM
1675 Views
- 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM
1675 Views
Oh, I fucking hate epistolary novels. Thank you for warning me.
- 27/01/2010 02:00:34 AM
1569 Views
It's funny because I think it's a question of taste level.
- 26/01/2010 02:32:08 PM
1735 Views
Curious George is a tale of many layers, as told by Werner Herzog
- 26/01/2010 02:34:27 PM
1799 Views
On what basis?
- 26/01/2010 02:51:40 PM
1714 Views
It's a children's book. Get over it. Democracy failed.
- 26/01/2010 02:55:03 PM
1739 Views
Usually does, when those who know better keep silent.
- 26/01/2010 02:57:54 PM
1639 Views
Regarding comfort zones
- 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM
1721 Views
Camilla, let's be honest here...
- 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM
1771 Views
Re: Camilla, let's be honest here...
- 26/01/2010 09:10:47 PM
1704 Views
If that's your goal, Camilla, you failed.
- 27/01/2010 01:35:52 PM
1786 Views
Possibly
- 27/01/2010 01:38:39 PM
1626 Views
I have not been ranting and raving. I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification.
- 27/01/2010 01:45:05 PM
1650 Views
Re: I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification.
- 27/01/2010 01:53:28 PM
1633 Views
I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg.
- 27/01/2010 02:26:12 PM
1797 Views
Don't you get it? We bring this place down.
- 27/01/2010 02:42:32 PM
1620 Views
Heh heh heh. Pink cardigan-wearing suburban cul-de-sac. I like it.
*NM*
- 27/01/2010 03:11:25 PM
838 Views
*NM*
- 27/01/2010 03:11:25 PM
838 Views
Re: I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg.
- 27/01/2010 02:43:11 PM
1638 Views
While that was not the intent, that is an added bonus.
- 27/01/2010 02:48:47 PM
1629 Views
why is it a bonus?
- 27/01/2010 02:52:58 PM
1596 Views
I said see above. You should have before the thought police, Rebekah, started to delete.
- 27/01/2010 02:59:07 PM
1880 Views
Well, you wouldn't grow tired of us calling a novel shit if you chose a novel that wasn't shit.
- 27/01/2010 03:11:57 PM
1600 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones
- 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM
1724 Views
So. I really liked it.
- 26/01/2010 08:57:02 AM
1817 Views
Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand.
- 26/01/2010 11:04:23 PM
1627 Views
Re: Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand.
- 26/01/2010 11:49:03 PM
1688 Views
We were talking about this last night.
- 27/01/2010 11:14:21 AM
1766 Views
Re: We were talking about this last night.
- 27/01/2010 11:37:04 AM
1787 Views
If you do that, I'm posting on the deeper meaning of Dan Brown.
- 27/01/2010 01:46:35 PM
1747 Views
Feel free to.
- 27/01/2010 01:51:23 PM
1725 Views
Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit.
- 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM
1635 Views
Re: Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit.
- 27/01/2010 02:45:41 PM
1720 Views
I'm not setting up a straw man. I'm challenging your touchy-feely approach.
- 27/01/2010 03:15:00 PM
1552 Views
My touchy-feely approach?
- 27/01/2010 05:09:04 PM
1632 Views
Yes...using passing references in the text to justify a deeper analysis.
- 27/01/2010 05:16:10 PM
1641 Views
Doesn't touchy-feely mean that it is steeped in or based on emotion?
- 27/01/2010 06:40:31 PM
1627 Views
I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here.
- 27/01/2010 07:01:08 PM
1595 Views
Re: I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here.
- 27/01/2010 08:29:32 PM
1683 Views
See my reply to Tom for clarification, then.
- 27/01/2010 08:57:18 PM
1725 Views
Re: See my reply to Tom for clarification, then.
- 27/01/2010 09:09:47 PM
1640 Views
Er. Whose position are you arguing - mine or yours?
- 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM
1530 Views
- 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM
1530 Views
Mine. Which is more complicated than a simple rejection. That is what I am saying.
- 01/02/2010 12:53:58 PM
1558 Views
Do it. I'd read that.
- 27/01/2010 01:55:23 PM
1782 Views
All righty, that's enough of that. For Tom, Greg, and... no, pretty much just you two.
- 27/01/2010 04:33:00 PM
1696 Views
I call bullshit. I have been conducting the debate in a measured fashion.
- 27/01/2010 04:50:35 PM
1653 Views
And ANOTHER THING
- 27/01/2010 05:05:17 PM
1553 Views
Not everyone has finished reading it yet *NM*
- 27/01/2010 05:12:10 PM
928 Views
Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing.
- 27/01/2010 05:17:51 PM
1718 Views
Re: Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing.
- 27/01/2010 06:41:11 PM
1669 Views
We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults.
- 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM
1606 Views
In the interest of discussing Dumas' intentions...
- 27/01/2010 08:03:24 PM
1769 Views
Re: We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults.
- 27/01/2010 08:30:19 PM
1744 Views
The text doesn't warrant "close attention" any more than Dan Brown's works do.
- 27/01/2010 09:10:45 PM
1616 Views
Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not.
- 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM
1655 Views
What discussion?
- 27/01/2010 06:42:32 PM
1660 Views
I said that we couldn't discuss the book on its own terms.
- 27/01/2010 07:35:32 PM
1747 Views
Which I still think we can.
- 27/01/2010 08:35:35 PM
1614 Views
Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all.
- 27/01/2010 09:06:59 PM
1713 Views
Re: Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all.
- 27/01/2010 09:12:22 PM
1659 Views
I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on.
- 27/01/2010 10:40:36 PM
1635 Views
Re: I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on.
- 01/02/2010 12:56:03 PM
1583 Views
Deary me.
- 27/01/2010 05:19:58 PM
1862 Views
By "respect" do you mean that you want me to drop my debates?
- 27/01/2010 05:24:03 PM
1620 Views
Not at all.
- 27/01/2010 05:35:34 PM
1757 Views
I'm sorry as well - if I had any kind of willpower, it wouldn't have gotten that far.
- 27/01/2010 06:29:43 PM
1683 Views
On the nature of the "Book Club"
- 28/01/2010 09:23:23 PM
1521 Views
Any chance of seeing some shorter suggestions?
- 28/01/2010 10:20:59 PM
1770 Views
Yes, shorter would be good.
- 28/01/2010 10:23:28 PM
1593 Views
Well, you should have known better!
- 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM
1619 Views
- 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM
1619 Views
All I can say is The Master and Margarita better be one by March. WE WAS ROBBED.
*NM*
- 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM
823 Views
*NM*
- 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM
823 Views
Well I'm late to the party
- 29/01/2010 06:21:18 AM
1597 Views
No, you're early
- 01/02/2010 01:26:10 PM
1494 Views
I still have yet to see that discussion, Camilla. *NM*
- 03/02/2010 12:46:24 AM
890 Views
Interesting way of dismissing what has already been discussed about the book
- 03/02/2010 04:22:26 AM
1740 Views
Nah, there's been discussion, here and there inbetween the fighting.
*NM*
- 03/02/2010 04:39:24 PM
826 Views
*NM*
- 03/02/2010 04:39:24 PM
826 Views
An interesting quote from the book - does it jibe with your experience?
- 29/01/2010 11:23:54 PM
1607 Views


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