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Re: Do it. I'd read that. Camilla Send a noteboard - 27/01/2010 02:10:04 PM
Just because you "find" something doesn't always mean it's there. It often just means you're being overly analytical.

Or it means that something in the work reminded you of a conversation that intrigues you anyway. Not necessarily that the work is steeped in meaning, or totally devoid. It so happens that the execution discussion at Carnival actually seemed to really pop out at me as a good debate topic.


You need to finish this book soon, so that I can actually discuss it with someone who is not a) scared off by Tom and Greg or b) unwilling to look at what the book has to offer because they are too focused on labelling it.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas - Book Club now open! Rebekah - 25/01/2010 10:54:37 PM 2909 Views
Le plot. Rebekah - 25/01/2010 10:55:26 PM 1660 Views
Plot: demarcation, plan, complot... Camilla - 26/01/2010 11:48:19 PM 1840 Views
Les characters. Rebekah - 25/01/2010 10:56:23 PM 1758 Views
The good, the bad and the ugly. Camilla - 26/01/2010 10:54:38 AM 1786 Views
Hmm. snoopcester - 27/01/2010 03:58:31 PM 1718 Views
Re: Hmm. Camilla - 27/01/2010 04:59:12 PM 1759 Views
Re: Hmm. snoopcester - 28/01/2010 01:40:34 PM 1698 Views
Re: Hmm. Camilla - 01/02/2010 12:49:06 PM 1927 Views
Why does the book have enduring appeal? Rebekah - 25/01/2010 10:57:37 PM 1733 Views
Or rather, does this book share any traits in common with pornography? Larry - 25/01/2010 11:14:01 PM 1879 Views
I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. Tom - 26/01/2010 03:43:04 AM 1786 Views
Re: I think the revenge plot is actually fairly weak. Camilla - 26/01/2010 11:12:19 AM 1811 Views
In that case, the "release" is quite unsatisfying. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:42:28 PM 1967 Views
Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:06:58 PM 1839 Views
He would not have known the book would be ruined by water. He thought he was being buried. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:15:02 PM 1706 Views
He would still have to swim, being on an island Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:37:26 PM 1883 Views
Oh, and your point on revenge - that's just reading too much into the text. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:16:05 PM 1671 Views
There is no such thing Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:18:46 PM 1711 Views
I fundamentally disagree with your post-modern take on the novel. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:25:25 PM 1782 Views
It isn't a postmodern take on it Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:41:32 PM 1733 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting snoopcester - 27/01/2010 03:40:36 PM 1726 Views
Maybe it's of the same importance as the Lost Symbol. Tom - 27/01/2010 03:44:55 PM 1782 Views
If I ddin't know better, I might think you a trifle petulant snoopcester - 27/01/2010 04:19:57 PM 1818 Views
I'm never petulant Tom - 27/01/2010 04:55:56 PM 1659 Views
Re: Which is precisely part of what makes the book interesting Camilla - 27/01/2010 04:47:37 PM 1837 Views
I think one important question to ask is... Legolas - 26/01/2010 12:00:17 AM 1813 Views
I like it, but it is purely on the adventure story level, and I've read the unabridged version. Rebekah - 26/01/2010 12:03:01 AM 1631 Views
I'm fairly certain I read the unabridged version. It was 1500 pages. *NM* Tom - 26/01/2010 02:36:10 AM 926 Views
I have read the abridged version a couple of times. I am reading the unabridged version this time. Tashmere - 26/01/2010 03:25:50 AM 1775 Views
the potentially removable part... Camilla - 26/01/2010 11:24:16 AM 1801 Views
I have read both Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:37:00 AM 1827 Views
I actually didn't mean the people here on the site so much as readers in general. Legolas - 27/01/2010 01:44:46 AM 1798 Views
Re: I actually didn't mean the people here on the site so much as readers in general. Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:48:11 AM 1778 Views
The abridged versus the unabridged Ryan - 28/01/2010 06:32:22 AM 1765 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:16:47 AM 1924 Views
Re: Why does the book have enduring appeal? Dar Valon - 30/01/2010 09:12:22 AM 1784 Views
Re: I got here too late, so I offer Umberto Eco's thoughts on the matter: Danae al'Thor - 22/02/2010 06:59:13 PM 1972 Views
I'm watching right back, Big Brother. *NM* The Shrike - 25/01/2010 11:44:30 PM 916 Views
*NM* Rebekah - 25/01/2010 11:45:27 PM 901 Views
The book was very childish. Tom - 26/01/2010 03:05:01 AM 1906 Views
Granted, The Master and Margarita is also very much a fantasy book. *NM* Ghavrel - 26/01/2010 03:07:45 AM 947 Views
No, it really isn't. Tom - 26/01/2010 03:10:08 AM 1795 Views
You know, this is a problem. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 03:43:14 AM 1803 Views
Thank God, I've never even heard of "Skol". Popov, yes, but Skol? Tom - 26/01/2010 03:49:08 AM 1777 Views
I've not tried it, but every time I go into liquor stores, it sits on the bottom shelf. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 03:57:03 AM 1690 Views
There's really nothing I can say to this that Greg didn't just say above. Ghavrel - 26/01/2010 06:32:02 AM 1873 Views
People tend to forget one thing about Tolkien Tom - 26/01/2010 01:36:06 PM 1737 Views
Re: No, it really isn't. Camilla - 26/01/2010 10:57:19 AM 1732 Views
Having Camilla concur with me on literary matters is very encouraging. Tom - 26/01/2010 01:37:23 PM 1797 Views
I do not agree with your complete dismissal of The Count of Monte Cristo, though Camilla - 26/01/2010 04:58:58 PM 1788 Views
I'll admit the only Lem I've read is Solaris... Legolas - 26/01/2010 01:52:02 PM 1839 Views
Read His Master's Voice Camilla - 26/01/2010 04:52:31 PM 1726 Views
You make some rather odd claims here, Tom Larry - 27/01/2010 12:43:41 AM 1827 Views
You place undue importance on academic degrees. Ghavrel - 27/01/2010 01:19:40 AM 1819 Views
You misread totally what I said, I see... Larry - 27/01/2010 01:52:59 AM 1702 Views
My claims are far from odd. In fact, they're quite common. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:57:41 AM 1791 Views
In some circles; in others, they're rather antiquated nowadays Larry - 27/01/2010 02:21:03 AM 1732 Views
If you were trying to write literature, wouldn't the label sting for you? Tom - 27/01/2010 01:25:14 PM 1749 Views
I think it's easier to think of stories fitting into genre(s) than to think the same of authors Larry - 27/01/2010 02:40:29 PM 1846 Views
Allow me to clarify: I'm talking about authors' reactions to their books being so labelled. Tom - 27/01/2010 03:08:47 PM 1873 Views
But yet their reactions vary widely Larry - 27/01/2010 11:33:25 PM 1746 Views
My fundamental premise is that genre has the most utility when applied to derivative fiction. Tom - 28/01/2010 09:39:17 PM 1753 Views
And yet that term is mostly used as a non-loaded term that doesn't attempt to ascribe quality levels Larry - 29/01/2010 02:49:20 AM 1669 Views
I like my definition of science fiction better than the one you quoted. Tom - 29/01/2010 05:16:36 AM 1721 Views
I think estrangement is a key element, though Larry - 30/01/2010 11:00:19 PM 1744 Views
I don't think estrangement is a necessary element. Tom - 30/01/2010 11:47:07 PM 1845 Views
I mean it as a literary effect, that of creating a distance between text and reader Larry - 31/01/2010 12:03:34 AM 1729 Views
Even if that's the meaning, I still disagree. Tom - 03/02/2010 12:49:58 AM 1676 Views
Depends on how you view SF, I suppose Larry - 03/02/2010 04:20:56 AM 1520 Views
I thought that was what we were mulling over Tom - 03/02/2010 04:38:35 AM 1706 Views
True Larry - 03/02/2010 05:11:19 AM 1637 Views
Nice tie-in! Tom - 03/02/2010 01:55:33 PM 1712 Views
Larry - 05/02/2010 06:06:23 AM 1752 Views
Your unscientific anecdotal evidence sounds very odd to me. Legolas - 28/01/2010 12:15:10 AM 1766 Views
It might. I'm not purporting to speak for all of humanity (at least on this point). Tom - 28/01/2010 09:43:40 PM 1811 Views
The approve of this message. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 03:34:49 AM 1790 Views
So, what you're saying is that watching the 2002 movie was sufficient? Good! *NM* everynametaken - 26/01/2010 06:34:53 AM 925 Views
I'm not through it quite yet, but I do have a question nossy - 26/01/2010 12:24:14 PM 1704 Views
Wait...you VOTED for this book? Tom - 26/01/2010 01:41:00 PM 1751 Views
I honestly can't remember. nossy - 26/01/2010 01:55:39 PM 1706 Views
Doctor Zhivago is one of the best novels ever written. Tom - 26/01/2010 02:12:35 PM 1758 Views
Right, so now we all know that if we'd just listen to me more often, the world would be better. nossy - 26/01/2010 02:20:56 PM 1711 Views
The problem was that the suggestions were generally not that good. Tom - 26/01/2010 02:32:50 PM 1783 Views
Possession is not "purely a romance novel". Legolas - 26/01/2010 02:57:17 PM 1908 Views
Which basically proves my entire point. nossy - 26/01/2010 03:00:20 PM 1780 Views
Which is purely a romance novel? Rebekah - 26/01/2010 02:59:38 PM 1780 Views
Fair enough, it might be a bit tricky to discuss. *NM* Legolas - 26/01/2010 03:04:58 PM 904 Views
In your opinion nossy - 26/01/2010 03:07:12 PM 1798 Views
Exactly why I avoid suggesting modern books Tom - 26/01/2010 03:10:09 PM 1802 Views
You really are ignornant of what A.S. Byatt writes, aren't you? Larry - 27/01/2010 12:51:00 AM 1769 Views
Oh, I fucking hate epistolary novels. Thank you for warning me. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:00:34 AM 1653 Views
Ha! Larry - 27/01/2010 02:22:00 AM 1725 Views
Perhaps I would like it. I still hate epistolary novels. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:26:43 PM 1777 Views
Indeed. *NM* Rebekah - 26/01/2010 02:01:22 PM 895 Views
It's funny because I think it's a question of taste level. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 02:32:08 PM 1817 Views
Curious George is a tale of many layers, as told by Werner Herzog Tom - 26/01/2010 02:34:27 PM 1883 Views
I don't care if this validates your opinion of me. Tashmere - 29/01/2010 11:06:18 PM 1655 Views
On what basis? nossy - 26/01/2010 02:51:40 PM 1798 Views
It's a children's book. Get over it. Democracy failed. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 02:55:03 PM 1828 Views
Usually does, when those who know better keep silent. nossy - 26/01/2010 02:57:54 PM 1733 Views
I didn't keep silent, though. The Shrike - 26/01/2010 04:46:48 PM 1800 Views
You're ignoring what we've been discussing. nossy - 27/01/2010 11:11:44 AM 1744 Views
Regarding comfort zones Camilla - 26/01/2010 05:08:50 PM 1829 Views
Camilla, let's be honest here... Tom - 26/01/2010 05:40:08 PM 1870 Views
Re: Camilla, let's be honest here... Camilla - 26/01/2010 09:10:47 PM 1854 Views
If that's your goal, Camilla, you failed. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:35:52 PM 1883 Views
Possibly Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:38:39 PM 1715 Views
I have not been ranting and raving. I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:45:05 PM 1751 Views
Re: I've been highly critical of the book, with much justification. Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:53:28 PM 1715 Views
I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:26:12 PM 1877 Views
Don't you get it? We bring this place down. The Shrike - 27/01/2010 02:42:32 PM 1717 Views
Heh heh heh. Pink cardigan-wearing suburban cul-de-sac. I like it. *NM* Tom - 27/01/2010 03:11:25 PM 890 Views
Re: I was wondering how long it would take for you to blame me and Greg. Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:43:11 PM 1725 Views
While that was not the intent, that is an added bonus. The Shrike - 27/01/2010 02:48:47 PM 1718 Views
why is it a bonus? Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:52:58 PM 1677 Views
I said see above. You should have before the thought police, Rebekah, started to delete. The Shrike - 27/01/2010 02:59:07 PM 1970 Views
I did Camilla - 27/01/2010 04:40:25 PM 1738 Views
Well, you wouldn't grow tired of us calling a novel shit if you chose a novel that wasn't shit. Tom - 27/01/2010 03:11:57 PM 1690 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones nossy - 27/01/2010 11:57:03 AM 1832 Views
Re: Regarding comfort zones Camilla - 27/01/2010 11:59:31 AM 1783 Views
Halfway nossy - 27/01/2010 12:07:14 PM 1713 Views
Re: Halfway Camilla - 27/01/2010 12:09:02 PM 1741 Views
Re: The book was very childish. Dar Valon - 30/01/2010 09:56:29 PM 1747 Views
I read it in French Larry - 30/01/2010 10:54:34 PM 1640 Views
So. I really liked it. Nebhead - 26/01/2010 08:57:02 AM 1914 Views
Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. Rebekah - 26/01/2010 11:04:23 PM 1713 Views
Re: Yes, fearless leader, this is where I stand. Camilla - 26/01/2010 11:49:03 PM 1772 Views
We were talking about this last night. nossy - 27/01/2010 11:14:21 AM 1849 Views
Re: We were talking about this last night. Camilla - 27/01/2010 11:37:04 AM 1889 Views
If you do that, I'm posting on the deeper meaning of Dan Brown. Tom - 27/01/2010 01:46:35 PM 1828 Views
Feel free to. Camilla - 27/01/2010 01:51:23 PM 1815 Views
Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. Tom - 27/01/2010 02:28:56 PM 1737 Views
Re: Your post-modern take on the novel is shit, shit, shit. Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:45:41 PM 1826 Views
I'm not setting up a straw man. I'm challenging your touchy-feely approach. Tom - 27/01/2010 03:15:00 PM 1659 Views
My touchy-feely approach? Camilla - 27/01/2010 05:09:04 PM 1758 Views
Yes...using passing references in the text to justify a deeper analysis. Tom - 27/01/2010 05:16:10 PM 1742 Views
Doesn't touchy-feely mean that it is steeped in or based on emotion? Camilla - 27/01/2010 06:40:31 PM 1744 Views
I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. Legolas - 27/01/2010 07:01:08 PM 1691 Views
You summed up my reasons for using "touchy-feely" quite well. Tom - 27/01/2010 07:27:45 PM 1736 Views
Glad to hear it. Legolas - 27/01/2010 07:39:20 PM 1587 Views
Re: I think between the two of you I agree more with Tom here. Camilla - 27/01/2010 08:29:32 PM 1774 Views
See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. Legolas - 27/01/2010 08:57:18 PM 1847 Views
Re: See my reply to Tom for clarification, then. Camilla - 27/01/2010 09:09:47 PM 1746 Views
Well, so what will it be? Tom - 27/01/2010 09:14:53 PM 1676 Views
Er. Whose position are you arguing - mine or yours? Legolas - 27/01/2010 10:33:01 PM 1633 Views
Mine. Which is more complicated than a simple rejection. That is what I am saying. Camilla - 01/02/2010 12:53:58 PM 1664 Views
Do it. I'd read that. nossy - 27/01/2010 01:55:23 PM 1868 Views
Re: Do it. I'd read that. Camilla - 27/01/2010 02:10:04 PM 1759 Views
Right then. nossy - 27/01/2010 02:15:04 PM 1710 Views
All righty, that's enough of that. For Tom, Greg, and... no, pretty much just you two. Nebhead - 27/01/2010 04:33:00 PM 1803 Views
I call bullshit. I have been conducting the debate in a measured fashion. Tom - 27/01/2010 04:50:35 PM 1753 Views
And ANOTHER THING Tom - 27/01/2010 05:05:17 PM 1636 Views
Not everyone has finished reading it yet *NM* Camilla - 27/01/2010 05:12:10 PM 987 Views
Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. Tom - 27/01/2010 05:17:51 PM 1801 Views
Re: Okay, so you'll get one or two stragglers in a week to a month. It changes nothing. Camilla - 27/01/2010 06:41:11 PM 1791 Views
We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. Tom - 27/01/2010 07:30:49 PM 1694 Views
In the interest of discussing Dumas' intentions... Legolas - 27/01/2010 08:03:24 PM 1852 Views
It was mildly interesting. Tom - 27/01/2010 09:04:03 PM 1791 Views
I think you're misreading that... Legolas - 27/01/2010 10:18:11 PM 1835 Views
Re: We are discussing this book. We're discussing its faults. Camilla - 27/01/2010 08:30:19 PM 1826 Views
The text doesn't warrant "close attention" any more than Dan Brown's works do. Tom - 27/01/2010 09:10:45 PM 1704 Views
fine. *NM* Camilla - 27/01/2010 09:12:44 PM 910 Views
Also, do you think a good book would have generated this level of discussion? Of course not. Tom - 27/01/2010 05:21:45 PM 1744 Views
What discussion? Camilla - 27/01/2010 06:42:32 PM 1741 Views
I said that we couldn't discuss the book on its own terms. Tom - 27/01/2010 07:35:32 PM 1875 Views
Which I still think we can. Camilla - 27/01/2010 08:35:35 PM 1723 Views
Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. Tom - 27/01/2010 09:06:59 PM 1798 Views
Re: Perhaps you shouldn't be breaking things down at all. Camilla - 27/01/2010 09:12:22 PM 1754 Views
You have yet to show any utility for breaking things down. Tom - 27/01/2010 09:19:29 PM 1887 Views
I haven't tried to show any "utility" for it. Camilla - 01/02/2010 01:06:35 PM 1685 Views
I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. Legolas - 27/01/2010 10:40:36 PM 1741 Views
Re: I apologize if I'm part of the reason you feel ganged up on. Camilla - 01/02/2010 12:56:03 PM 1695 Views
Deary me. Nebhead - 27/01/2010 05:19:58 PM 1943 Views
By "respect" do you mean that you want me to drop my debates? Tom - 27/01/2010 05:24:03 PM 1700 Views
Not at all. Nebhead - 27/01/2010 05:35:34 PM 1858 Views
Okay, I'm cool with that. Tom - 27/01/2010 05:44:54 PM 1839 Views
Thank you. Nebhead - 27/01/2010 05:48:05 PM 2436 Views
Please ban me, then. The Shrike - 27/01/2010 06:44:55 PM 1672 Views
I'm sorry as well - if I had any kind of willpower, it wouldn't have gotten that far. nossy - 27/01/2010 06:29:43 PM 1778 Views
Nods Roland00 - 18/02/2010 05:06:44 PM 2184 Views
Oh man, I love this thread. *NM* Ghavrel - 28/01/2010 01:17:58 AM 884 Views
On the nature of the "Book Club" Jacob - 28/01/2010 09:23:23 PM 1611 Views
Any chance of seeing some shorter suggestions? Wibble - 28/01/2010 10:20:59 PM 1852 Views
Yes, shorter would be good. Rebekah - 28/01/2010 10:23:28 PM 1676 Views
Oh i'm not complaining Wibble - 28/01/2010 10:33:48 PM 1694 Views
Sure sounded like it. Rebekah - 28/01/2010 10:38:27 PM 1730 Views
No for reals, shorter is good. Darth_Katie - 29/01/2010 01:08:26 AM 1725 Views
Absolutely. Jacob - 29/01/2010 03:33:15 AM 1665 Views
Agreed snoopcester - 29/01/2010 11:26:34 AM 1708 Views
Well, you should have known better! Larry - 29/01/2010 01:29:40 AM 1708 Views
I do. Jacob - 29/01/2010 08:31:30 PM 1703 Views
Thought you did Larry - 29/01/2010 08:38:39 PM 1667 Views
Jacob - 29/01/2010 08:51:42 PM 1709 Views
All I can say is The Master and Margarita better be one by March. WE WAS ROBBED. *NM* Ghavrel - 29/01/2010 02:31:48 AM 875 Views
That is the other one that I am considering. *NM* Jacob - 29/01/2010 03:32:02 AM 901 Views
I'll re-read Zhivago or Master if either is chosen Tom - 29/01/2010 05:26:02 AM 1681 Views
Talk to me Ghavrel. Tashmere - 30/01/2010 12:09:24 AM 1655 Views
Well, I haven't finished it yet. Ghavrel - 30/01/2010 02:21:08 AM 1695 Views
Re: On the nature of the "Book Club" nossy - 29/01/2010 12:33:03 PM 1650 Views
I didn't read it for the Book Club AgentOrange - 29/01/2010 12:40:22 AM 1694 Views
Well I'm late to the party John - 29/01/2010 06:21:18 AM 1687 Views
No, you're early Camilla - 01/02/2010 01:26:10 PM 1616 Views
I still have yet to see that discussion, Camilla. *NM* Tom - 03/02/2010 12:46:24 AM 937 Views
A few comments John - 04/02/2010 06:39:18 AM 1979 Views
If I kept you from participating, that's your fault. Tom - 04/02/2010 01:01:46 PM 1657 Views
Interesting way of dismissing what has already been discussed about the book Larry - 03/02/2010 04:22:26 AM 1835 Views
Nah, there's been discussion, here and there inbetween the fighting. *NM* Legolas - 03/02/2010 04:39:24 PM 875 Views
An interesting quote from the book - does it jibe with your experience? Tashmere - 29/01/2010 11:23:54 PM 1710 Views
Sure. Jacob - 01/02/2010 03:23:59 PM 1686 Views
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