That's all I meant by my statement. His writing reflects the times, but moreso in a very conservative community. I feel like he has as many influential women in his story as there are powerful women in classical history.Luthien, Galadriel, Eowyn to history's Cleopatra, Jeanne-Antoinette Poisson, Octavia Augusta, Elizabeth...I mean, the goddesses are almost nonexistent in his mythology. With how heavily influences pantheotic writing is by ancient Greece and Rome, you'd think he would have a couple of goddesses that stand out a bit; the best that can be said for most of the women (namely the goddesses, because we don't see many others) in the series is they serve as companions to powerful/influential men. Sad really.
Don't get me wrong though, I love Tolkien.
I think the most-mentioned Vala in the books has to be Elbereth/Varda, and Yavanna is important as well. They're not really active in battle of course, but Elbereth is mentioned as being the Vala most hated/feared by Melkor/Morgoth. And then there's Melian, Luthien's mother, who after all is a Maia on a level with Sauron. Melian is companion to Thingol, yeah, but it's obvious that she's both wiser and more powerful than he.
I agree with you about Varda and Yavanna, but I still don't feel as though they have very strong features in the books. Yes, they're feared, but it is the men doing most of everything. I love Melian, however, she willingly sacrificed so much to be with a petty elf. Though she hasd lived for thousands of years before Thingol's birth, she subordinates herself to him almosty immediately (I mean petty because of Thingol's actions with the Noldor in some of the wars, and how possessive/harsh he becomes; but I generally like Elu). I just cannot stand how there are no powerful women that do not have a male companion guarding over them, as if they are unable to function without one. Even the women that do phenomenal things: Luthien, Eowen, either end up deplorably unhappy, or married with kids to put them in their "rightful" places.
The greatest King in Fantasy
- 09/04/2010 05:18:42 AM
1993 Views
King Arthur. Hands down.
- 09/04/2010 06:40:15 AM
1375 Views
I would argue with you.
- 09/04/2010 06:54:53 AM
1338 Views
That's the point, though. Arthur's humanity is what makes him so admirable.
- 09/04/2010 06:59:07 AM
1376 Views
I have to agree with Dannymac
- 09/04/2010 02:04:44 PM
1377 Views
But he's not in a modern fantasy novel. 
- 09/04/2010 07:37:14 PM
1392 Views
- 09/04/2010 07:37:14 PM
1392 Views
when I read the actual book...
- 10/04/2010 12:08:21 AM
1393 Views
"The actual character"? Which of the countless different ones? *NM*
- 10/04/2010 12:21:00 AM
657 Views
i mean the actual character of Arthur in the actual book.
- 10/04/2010 12:51:44 AM
1469 Views
There isn't an "actual book." Le Morte d'Arthur is a relatively early compilation of legends. *NM*
- 10/04/2010 03:09:40 AM
700 Views
I'm going with the most likely historical version of King Arthur
- 09/04/2010 06:45:26 PM
1422 Views
My money is still on Aragorn
- 09/04/2010 12:47:43 PM
1489 Views
Aragorn is so awesome...
- 09/04/2010 02:05:42 PM
1354 Views
Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though.
- 09/04/2010 02:18:30 PM
1317 Views
Re: Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though.
- 09/04/2010 02:49:45 PM
1375 Views
Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien.
- 09/04/2010 03:32:00 PM
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Re: Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien.
- 09/04/2010 03:45:37 PM
1577 Views
I can't agree about the goddesses.
- 09/04/2010 04:34:15 PM
1423 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses.
- 09/04/2010 04:55:34 PM
1317 Views
If Tacitus and Graves were accurate
- 09/04/2010 05:09:20 PM
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Re: If Tacitus and Graves were accurate
- 09/04/2010 05:26:43 PM
1328 Views
I rather liked her depiction in Rome.
- 09/04/2010 05:34:37 PM
1415 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses.
- 09/04/2010 05:02:50 PM
1373 Views
Nienna, the Valier of Mercy, was single and a wanderer. She's not the most powerful, but...
- 09/04/2010 06:55:23 PM
1387 Views
Re: Nienna, the Valier of Mercy, was single and a wanderer. She's not the most powerful, but...
- 09/04/2010 07:04:37 PM
1391 Views
thought of a better example: Arien the Maia of the Sun was single and far more powerful than Tilion
- 09/04/2010 09:17:34 PM
1624 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses.
- 09/04/2010 05:06:49 PM
1483 Views
That was my first assumption too, but evidently not. *NM*
- 09/04/2010 05:22:39 PM
640 Views
I changed it to Livia Augusta Sheesh, you people-- a guy mistypes one time!! *NM*
- 09/04/2010 05:29:03 PM
701 Views
Sheesh, you people-- a guy mistypes one time!! *NM*
- 09/04/2010 05:29:03 PM
701 Views
I call bullshit
- 09/04/2010 08:09:49 PM
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Re: I call bullshit
- 09/04/2010 08:31:16 PM
1345 Views
Re: I call bullshit
- 10/04/2010 08:04:15 AM
1427 Views
I didn't realize it was fashionable to call Tolkien sexist.
- 10/04/2010 05:12:07 PM
1421 Views
He's good, but then he just doesn't have to face so many things.
- 09/04/2010 02:22:04 PM
1623 Views
Doesn't have to face many things?
- 09/04/2010 07:59:27 PM
1389 Views
As in, there are many important aspects of being king he doesn't have to face.
- 09/04/2010 08:07:16 PM
1370 Views
well technically speaking he WAS the king when he did all those things.
- 10/04/2010 12:15:26 AM
1379 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things?
- 09/04/2010 08:38:51 PM
1235 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things?
- 10/04/2010 08:24:33 AM
1326 Views
I'm sure there are many, but one coming to mind is Prince Josua from Memory, Sorrow and Thorn
- 09/04/2010 02:23:57 PM
1340 Views
I'm going to go with a tie...
- 09/04/2010 04:22:42 PM
1354 Views
Rohan was a whiny hypocritical bitch who failed at the only real test of rulership he ever faced.
- 10/04/2010 02:51:34 AM
1403 Views
Artur Hawkwing
- 10/04/2010 03:34:02 AM
1504 Views
Alexander the Great? *NM*
- 10/04/2010 05:08:25 AM
670 Views
*NM*
- 10/04/2010 05:08:25 AM
670 Views
AH conquered more, did better, & was not a huge d-bag. Alex would have commissioned that big statue *NM*
- 12/04/2010 03:00:39 PM
647 Views
And both managed to have their so-called "empires" crumble within a year of their death. *NM*
- 12/04/2010 06:12:20 PM
655 Views
Which just reinforces how awesome AH was - no one else could do what he did
- 13/04/2010 11:50:54 AM
1426 Views
???
- 10/04/2010 10:30:13 AM
1893 Views
Ta'veren is not a power, it is an accomodation with what the Pattern demands of certain people
- 12/04/2010 02:56:57 PM
1324 Views
What's the name of the Lemur-thing that's the King in "the penguins of madagascar"? He gets my vote! *NM*
- 14/04/2010 04:46:42 AM
702 Views