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Re: If Tacitus and Graves were accurate lyringlas Send a noteboard - 09/04/2010 05:26:43 PM
If "I, Claudius" and it's source material are accurate depictions of the character of Livia, she was an evil EVIL b:censored:h of epic proportions, making maybe even Cersei Lannister seem like a sweet person.



So she had her faults... she she might have killed off Julia the elder's children in order to secure succession of Tiberius and Germanicus to the throne...there may have been speculation that she killed Augustus... (coughs) Augustus needed her for her family, and eventually (once all the Juliae heirs started dying off) for her sons. He must have loved her for some reason though, because he left her everything, which was unprecedented, because noble women never owned anything, even in the early empire. Women's estates were either managed by their husbands, or by their fathers remotely (the "remotely managed" method was often implemented by Roman women to allow them to manage their own affairs under the guise of their fathers doing so...even if their fathers lived in Hallas Palestinas).

These events might have happened, but if a man did these things, it wouldn't have been looked down upon as harshly. This is similar to women in business that have stern personalities and thus are called bitches, whereas men are just called business savvy and efficient. She was an ambitious woman in the fledging Roman empire (I mean empire only in the sense that Augustus is the first "real" emperor, even though Marius, Sulla, and Julius were before him), and so any and every action she took was scrutinized and demonized to astounding proportions. Simply being out in public, and holding meetings with men directly created all sorts of misogynistic backlash from the upper crust.

She was definitely an interesting lady to study.

edits: me being a dumb ass
This message last edited by lyringlas on 09/04/2010 at 05:27:49 PM
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The greatest King in Fantasy - 09/04/2010 05:18:42 AM 2086 Views
King Arthur. Hands down. - 09/04/2010 06:40:15 AM 1486 Views
I would argue with you. - 09/04/2010 06:54:53 AM 1437 Views
That's the point, though. Arthur's humanity is what makes him so admirable. - 09/04/2010 06:59:07 AM 1455 Views
I have to agree with Dannymac - 09/04/2010 02:04:44 PM 1450 Views
But he's not in a modern fantasy novel. - 09/04/2010 07:37:14 PM 1499 Views
when I read the actual book... - 10/04/2010 12:08:21 AM 1484 Views
I'm going with the most likely historical version of King Arthur - 09/04/2010 06:45:26 PM 1522 Views
My money is still on Aragorn - 09/04/2010 12:47:43 PM 1583 Views
Aragorn is so awesome... - 09/04/2010 02:05:42 PM 1433 Views
Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though. - 09/04/2010 02:18:30 PM 1395 Views
Re: Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though. - 09/04/2010 02:49:45 PM 1464 Views
Hm - 09/04/2010 03:23:53 PM 1507 Views
Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien. - 09/04/2010 03:32:00 PM 1401 Views
Re: Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien. - 09/04/2010 03:45:37 PM 1665 Views
I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 04:34:15 PM 1524 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 04:55:34 PM 1407 Views
If Tacitus and Graves were accurate - 09/04/2010 05:09:20 PM 1532 Views
Re: If Tacitus and Graves were accurate - 09/04/2010 05:26:43 PM 1436 Views
I rather liked her depiction in Rome. - 09/04/2010 05:34:37 PM 1508 Views
Re: I rather liked her depiction in Rome. - 09/04/2010 05:45:06 PM 1560 Views
Re: I rather liked her depiction in Rome. - 10/04/2010 11:14:26 AM 1571 Views
I don't know if I'd call it bad, per se. - 10/04/2010 11:37:55 AM 1693 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 05:02:50 PM 1470 Views
Eh, the other Vala don't do much of anything either. - 09/04/2010 05:31:42 PM 1446 Views
Re: Eh, the other Vala don't do much of anything either. - 09/04/2010 05:44:03 PM 1455 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 05:06:49 PM 1577 Views
I call bullshit - 09/04/2010 08:09:49 PM 1396 Views
Re: I call bullshit - 09/04/2010 08:31:16 PM 1423 Views
Re: I call bullshit - 10/04/2010 08:04:15 AM 1506 Views
I didn't realize it was fashionable to call Tolkien sexist. - 10/04/2010 05:12:07 PM 1511 Views
Re: I didn't realize it was fashionable to call Tolkien sexist. - 12/04/2010 11:00:23 AM 1386 Views
Exactly. - 13/04/2010 03:08:46 AM 1501 Views
Re: Exactly. - 13/04/2010 08:54:01 AM 1571 Views
I was going to say something similar. - 09/04/2010 03:21:45 PM 1437 Views
Re: Aragorn is so awesome... - 09/04/2010 08:00:25 PM 1401 Views
Re: Aragorn is so awesome... - 09/04/2010 08:37:12 PM 1424 Views
He's good, but then he just doesn't have to face so many things. - 09/04/2010 02:22:04 PM 1728 Views
Doesn't have to face many things? - 09/04/2010 07:59:27 PM 1474 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 09/04/2010 08:38:51 PM 1328 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 10/04/2010 08:24:33 AM 1421 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 10/04/2010 05:08:42 PM 1589 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 12/04/2010 10:55:12 AM 1410 Views
He really wasn't a king in majority of the story though - 12/04/2010 05:54:23 PM 1385 Views
I'm sure there are many, but one coming to mind is Prince Josua from Memory, Sorrow and Thorn - 09/04/2010 02:23:57 PM 1420 Views
Oh yeah I liked him a lot *NM* - 09/04/2010 04:09:59 PM 714 Views
Josua Lackhand is a great fantasy King! - 09/04/2010 05:14:39 PM 1484 Views
Arutha was never King. *NM* - 09/04/2010 07:18:30 PM 685 Views
I'm going to go with a tie... - 09/04/2010 04:22:42 PM 1427 Views
Joffrey and the Stag! *NM* - 09/04/2010 09:53:56 PM 691 Views
ROFL *NM* - 09/04/2010 11:39:36 PM 655 Views
Artur Hawkwing - 10/04/2010 03:34:02 AM 1591 Views
??? - 10/04/2010 10:30:13 AM 2005 Views
Simba *NM* - 10/04/2010 08:40:38 AM 746 Views
Manwe - 10/04/2010 10:31:54 AM 1891 Views
Bah. He's hardly a character. *NM* - 12/04/2010 01:07:29 AM 815 Views
Arutha, the Prince of Krondor - 12/04/2010 01:06:14 AM 1493 Views
Westley - 13/04/2010 02:59:36 AM 1446 Views
Leto Atreides II - 13/04/2010 05:07:29 AM 1375 Views
I'll agree with that! *NM* - 13/04/2010 11:33:10 AM 685 Views

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