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thought of a better example: Arien the Maia of the Sun was single and far more powerful than Tilion RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 09/04/2010 09:17:34 PM
Gandalf learned pity from a single woman? See, this proves my point: she is only pitiable because she is single and without some man lovin' to make her complete. :P


I think you were joking, but for those not in the know, she has a strange gift of mercy and foresight, so she could see that when the world was created there would be things that would change and that the greatest works could be marred. She argued for the punishment and not destruction of Melkor the first time he was defeated. It turned out wrong, but it is out of pity and mercy that the world is enriched and takes on a different type of grace from that of prettiness. I'm not quite sure what sort of statement Tolkien was making with her - I tend to think she is an archetype more of a nun or Virgin Mary rather than single.

I agree with you about the gods though. The prowess in battle only becomes important when you talk about the Eldar.


I think it's understood that none of the monsters created by Melkor could stand against any of the gods. Arien, with the power to withstand great heat, and Tilion, whom loved silver, were both Maia, spirits like Gandalf/Olorin, and guided the Sun and the Moon respectively to give the world light after the Two Trees were destroyed by Ungoliant and the Silmaril stolen. When Melkor sent monsters to attack them, they couldn't even get near Arien, because she had greater power and was a fire spirit, so their weapons could not harm her - in her naked form as a fierce flame, it is possible to envision her enemies being burnt away when they tried to come too close. Tilion's charge was damaged, though, because he was less mighty, being a spirit that was a hunter from Orome's entourage - so he had to fight and could not quite protect it.

Sorry, I love "The Silmarillion" :).
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
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The greatest King in Fantasy - 09/04/2010 05:18:42 AM 1755 Views
King Arthur. Hands down. - 09/04/2010 06:40:15 AM 1159 Views
I would argue with you. - 09/04/2010 06:54:53 AM 1104 Views
That's the point, though. Arthur's humanity is what makes him so admirable. - 09/04/2010 06:59:07 AM 1153 Views
I have to agree with Dannymac - 09/04/2010 02:04:44 PM 1143 Views
But he's not in a modern fantasy novel. - 09/04/2010 07:37:14 PM 1169 Views
when I read the actual book... - 10/04/2010 12:08:21 AM 1162 Views
I'm going with the most likely historical version of King Arthur - 09/04/2010 06:45:26 PM 1207 Views
My money is still on Aragorn - 09/04/2010 12:47:43 PM 1263 Views
Aragorn is so awesome... - 09/04/2010 02:05:42 PM 1111 Views
Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though. - 09/04/2010 02:18:30 PM 1082 Views
Re: Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though. - 09/04/2010 02:49:45 PM 1156 Views
Hm - 09/04/2010 03:23:53 PM 1199 Views
Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien. - 09/04/2010 03:32:00 PM 1103 Views
Re: Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien. - 09/04/2010 03:45:37 PM 1360 Views
I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 04:34:15 PM 1220 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 04:55:34 PM 1093 Views
If Tacitus and Graves were accurate - 09/04/2010 05:09:20 PM 1152 Views
Re: If Tacitus and Graves were accurate - 09/04/2010 05:26:43 PM 1112 Views
I rather liked her depiction in Rome. - 09/04/2010 05:34:37 PM 1170 Views
Re: I rather liked her depiction in Rome. - 09/04/2010 05:45:06 PM 1250 Views
Re: I rather liked her depiction in Rome. - 10/04/2010 11:14:26 AM 1263 Views
I don't know if I'd call it bad, per se. - 10/04/2010 11:37:55 AM 1336 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 05:02:50 PM 1144 Views
Eh, the other Vala don't do much of anything either. - 09/04/2010 05:31:42 PM 1105 Views
Re: Eh, the other Vala don't do much of anything either. - 09/04/2010 05:44:03 PM 1150 Views
Nienna, the Valier of Mercy, was single and a wanderer. She's not the most powerful, but... - 09/04/2010 06:55:23 PM 1157 Views
Re: Nienna, the Valier of Mercy, was single and a wanderer. She's not the most powerful, but... - 09/04/2010 07:04:37 PM 1164 Views
thought of a better example: Arien the Maia of the Sun was single and far more powerful than Tilion - 09/04/2010 09:17:34 PM 1405 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 05:06:49 PM 1262 Views
I call bullshit - 09/04/2010 08:09:49 PM 1104 Views
Re: I call bullshit - 09/04/2010 08:31:16 PM 1106 Views
Re: I call bullshit - 10/04/2010 08:04:15 AM 1187 Views
I didn't realize it was fashionable to call Tolkien sexist. - 10/04/2010 05:12:07 PM 1188 Views
Re: I didn't realize it was fashionable to call Tolkien sexist. - 12/04/2010 11:00:23 AM 1060 Views
Exactly. - 13/04/2010 03:08:46 AM 1165 Views
Re: Exactly. - 13/04/2010 08:54:01 AM 1239 Views
I was going to say something similar. - 09/04/2010 03:21:45 PM 1125 Views
Re: Aragorn is so awesome... - 09/04/2010 08:00:25 PM 1124 Views
Re: Aragorn is so awesome... - 09/04/2010 08:37:12 PM 1119 Views
He's good, but then he just doesn't have to face so many things. - 09/04/2010 02:22:04 PM 1421 Views
Doesn't have to face many things? - 09/04/2010 07:59:27 PM 1172 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 09/04/2010 08:38:51 PM 1001 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 10/04/2010 08:24:33 AM 1108 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 10/04/2010 05:08:42 PM 1236 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 12/04/2010 10:55:12 AM 1106 Views
He really wasn't a king in majority of the story though - 12/04/2010 05:54:23 PM 1063 Views
I'm sure there are many, but one coming to mind is Prince Josua from Memory, Sorrow and Thorn - 09/04/2010 02:23:57 PM 1108 Views
Oh yeah I liked him a lot *NM* - 09/04/2010 04:09:59 PM 529 Views
Josua Lackhand is a great fantasy King! - 09/04/2010 05:14:39 PM 1169 Views
Arutha was never King. *NM* - 09/04/2010 07:18:30 PM 508 Views
I'm going to go with a tie... - 09/04/2010 04:22:42 PM 1119 Views
Joffrey and the Stag! *NM* - 09/04/2010 09:53:56 PM 510 Views
ROFL *NM* - 09/04/2010 11:39:36 PM 479 Views
Artur Hawkwing - 10/04/2010 03:34:02 AM 1226 Views
??? - 10/04/2010 10:30:13 AM 1509 Views
Simba *NM* - 10/04/2010 08:40:38 AM 541 Views
Manwe - 10/04/2010 10:31:54 AM 1416 Views
Bah. He's hardly a character. *NM* - 12/04/2010 01:07:29 AM 634 Views
Arutha, the Prince of Krondor - 12/04/2010 01:06:14 AM 1174 Views
Westley - 13/04/2010 02:59:36 AM 1095 Views
Leto Atreides II - 13/04/2010 05:07:29 AM 1049 Views
I'll agree with that! *NM* - 13/04/2010 11:33:10 AM 510 Views

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