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Re: I didn't realize it was fashionable to call Tolkien sexist. Camilla Send a noteboard - 12/04/2010 11:00:23 AM
I've actually never discussed the books with anyone, so...I apologize. It was just a thought I had as I was reading through the books a while back. I remember the part you are citing about Gandalf talking to Eomer. I like how he deals with the Eowyn material, but she ends up settling down and having babies anyway. I've come to the side of Legolas, in all of this, and have retracted most of my sexism claim.


Everyone ends up settling down and having babies. It is called a happy ending. I remember having second thoughts when I read her "conversion" to healing and growing things rather than fighting once she accepts Faramir. But then I remembered that this is Tolkien. The problem with oversimplified grids that label something as anti-feminist if women go from fighting to tending is that it ignores in this case the underlying valuation in the whole of this literary universe. Growing and healing and tending is the supreme good. It is not necessarily tied to a simple male/female axis, and I think forcing it into that is a serious mistake in this case.

Faramir is the hero, rather than Boromir, precisely because he belongs to the "party" that Eowyn joins. Aragorn reaches his potential only once war is over and he turns to tending, growing, healing. Orcs fight, elves tend. Men are at their best when they do the latter.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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The greatest King in Fantasy - 09/04/2010 05:18:42 AM 2045 Views
King Arthur. Hands down. - 09/04/2010 06:40:15 AM 1432 Views
I would argue with you. - 09/04/2010 06:54:53 AM 1389 Views
That's the point, though. Arthur's humanity is what makes him so admirable. - 09/04/2010 06:59:07 AM 1430 Views
I have to agree with Dannymac - 09/04/2010 02:04:44 PM 1427 Views
But he's not in a modern fantasy novel. - 09/04/2010 07:37:14 PM 1442 Views
when I read the actual book... - 10/04/2010 12:08:21 AM 1450 Views
I'm going with the most likely historical version of King Arthur - 09/04/2010 06:45:26 PM 1477 Views
My money is still on Aragorn - 09/04/2010 12:47:43 PM 1550 Views
Aragorn is so awesome... - 09/04/2010 02:05:42 PM 1407 Views
Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though. - 09/04/2010 02:18:30 PM 1367 Views
Re: Arwen's character is just never fleshed out, though. - 09/04/2010 02:49:45 PM 1439 Views
Hm - 09/04/2010 03:23:53 PM 1482 Views
Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien. - 09/04/2010 03:32:00 PM 1371 Views
Re: Mostly, yes, but there are a few exceptions - Galadriel, Eowyn, and above all Luthien. - 09/04/2010 03:45:37 PM 1636 Views
I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 04:34:15 PM 1484 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 04:55:34 PM 1375 Views
If Tacitus and Graves were accurate - 09/04/2010 05:09:20 PM 1466 Views
Re: If Tacitus and Graves were accurate - 09/04/2010 05:26:43 PM 1389 Views
I rather liked her depiction in Rome. - 09/04/2010 05:34:37 PM 1478 Views
Re: I rather liked her depiction in Rome. - 09/04/2010 05:45:06 PM 1532 Views
Re: I rather liked her depiction in Rome. - 10/04/2010 11:14:26 AM 1545 Views
I don't know if I'd call it bad, per se. - 10/04/2010 11:37:55 AM 1662 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 05:02:50 PM 1424 Views
Eh, the other Vala don't do much of anything either. - 09/04/2010 05:31:42 PM 1392 Views
Re: Eh, the other Vala don't do much of anything either. - 09/04/2010 05:44:03 PM 1431 Views
Re: I can't agree about the goddesses. - 09/04/2010 05:06:49 PM 1539 Views
I call bullshit - 09/04/2010 08:09:49 PM 1366 Views
Re: I call bullshit - 09/04/2010 08:31:16 PM 1405 Views
Re: I call bullshit - 10/04/2010 08:04:15 AM 1479 Views
I didn't realize it was fashionable to call Tolkien sexist. - 10/04/2010 05:12:07 PM 1475 Views
Re: I didn't realize it was fashionable to call Tolkien sexist. - 12/04/2010 11:00:23 AM 1346 Views
Exactly. - 13/04/2010 03:08:46 AM 1460 Views
Re: Exactly. - 13/04/2010 08:54:01 AM 1538 Views
I was going to say something similar. - 09/04/2010 03:21:45 PM 1406 Views
Re: Aragorn is so awesome... - 09/04/2010 08:00:25 PM 1375 Views
Re: Aragorn is so awesome... - 09/04/2010 08:37:12 PM 1401 Views
He's good, but then he just doesn't have to face so many things. - 09/04/2010 02:22:04 PM 1693 Views
Doesn't have to face many things? - 09/04/2010 07:59:27 PM 1438 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 09/04/2010 08:38:51 PM 1291 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 10/04/2010 08:24:33 AM 1384 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 10/04/2010 05:08:42 PM 1540 Views
Re: Doesn't have to face many things? - 12/04/2010 10:55:12 AM 1347 Views
He really wasn't a king in majority of the story though - 12/04/2010 05:54:23 PM 1352 Views
I'm sure there are many, but one coming to mind is Prince Josua from Memory, Sorrow and Thorn - 09/04/2010 02:23:57 PM 1396 Views
Oh yeah I liked him a lot *NM* - 09/04/2010 04:09:59 PM 694 Views
Josua Lackhand is a great fantasy King! - 09/04/2010 05:14:39 PM 1459 Views
Arutha was never King. *NM* - 09/04/2010 07:18:30 PM 666 Views
I'm going to go with a tie... - 09/04/2010 04:22:42 PM 1407 Views
Joffrey and the Stag! *NM* - 09/04/2010 09:53:56 PM 667 Views
ROFL *NM* - 09/04/2010 11:39:36 PM 643 Views
Artur Hawkwing - 10/04/2010 03:34:02 AM 1559 Views
??? - 10/04/2010 10:30:13 AM 1964 Views
Simba *NM* - 10/04/2010 08:40:38 AM 724 Views
Manwe - 10/04/2010 10:31:54 AM 1860 Views
Bah. He's hardly a character. *NM* - 12/04/2010 01:07:29 AM 801 Views
Arutha, the Prince of Krondor - 12/04/2010 01:06:14 AM 1464 Views
Westley - 13/04/2010 02:59:36 AM 1398 Views
Leto Atreides II - 13/04/2010 05:07:29 AM 1351 Views
I'll agree with that! *NM* - 13/04/2010 11:33:10 AM 667 Views

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