Re: No, the choice of 'Men and Women' is too specific in the context
Isaac Send a noteboard - 10/08/2010 03:46:56 PM
Well it isn't techinically legally binding on an international level anyway. At the moment. But wait a few years and my point will stand. 

Not even a technicality, it's not a treaty and was never meant to be binding, I don't think that if it were a treaty it would have a snowballs chance in hell of being ratified, even with the normal senate exceptions and declarations tacked on to treaties.
Well it is arguable that the US is committing a whole series of violations, but Article 5 is the most blatent, 16 to follow it up. It never says that men and women have to be married to a member of the oppisite gender and though the choice of words may initially seem to provide fot that on further analysis it would at the very least permit homosexual marriage, at the most ensure it. I'm actually doing a campaign at my high school to get the UDHR integrated into the social studies curriculum, I think it is a major problem that so few people know or care about it.
The problem is lots of people go around declaring what something means, so courts decide, and I don't think you have made the case that the US and 181 of 192 other countries are not in violation of article 16.
Just because a vast majority of nations are committing a violation of the UDHR doesn't mean that it isn't a violation. Perhaps the ICJ needs to step and and make a judicial ruling on this, but until then I will hold that the UDHR provides for homosexual marriage.
If it makes you feel better go ahead
The ICJ is not likely to rule more liberally than the European Court on Human Rights, which ruled there was no violation of human rights about a month ago on a gay marriage case arising in Austria. If most countries don't allow gay marriage though, that doesn't mean it's right or wrong, but it does mean the current consensus of opinion is that it isn't a right, and naysayers are well advised to remember that 'on the international stage' the US has far more liberal laws on homosexuality than most countries. But whether it does or doesn't call it a right or allow gay marriage, it's basically tilting at windmills since it has no legal power and was designed not to have legal power. Our courts regularly borrow foreign judicial rulings as examples, they do not cite them as having legal power [some exceptions like maritime law]. The UHDR, while considerably more ethical than human rights laws of say, China, have no more legal weight in the US.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
This message last edited by Isaac on 10/08/2010 at 03:48:43 PM
Let's ban all Christian Marriage.
- 07/08/2010 06:36:13 AM
1721 Views
Nice satire, but it raises another point for me.
- 07/08/2010 07:20:49 AM
1105 Views
That would only be appropriate if Christians wanted to ban secular unions of normal people.
- 07/08/2010 11:51:29 AM
1371 Views
Hey, look! There was a point over there!
- 07/08/2010 03:46:41 PM
1184 Views
Who else should make those decisions?
- 07/08/2010 08:00:39 PM
1130 Views
I'd totally...
- 08/08/2010 04:14:15 AM
1050 Views
I'd totally...
- 08/08/2010 06:17:30 AM
1210 Views
I used to think Joel was the biggest rambler on this site. I am seriously reconsidering.
- 08/08/2010 05:24:56 AM
1153 Views
And my assessment of one poster as the most content-poor, non-contributing slug is unchanged
- 08/08/2010 07:17:02 PM
1043 Views
*Shakes Head*
- 08/08/2010 06:23:47 AM
1017 Views
I highly doubt Cannoli is "scared" of homosexuals *NM*
- 08/08/2010 06:29:54 AM
574 Views
Perhaps not in the physical sense.
- 08/08/2010 06:35:53 AM
1114 Views
Re: Perhaps not in the physical sense.
- 08/08/2010 06:46:56 AM
1070 Views
Re: *Shakes Head*
- 08/08/2010 07:43:11 PM
1058 Views
I still do not see how you think marriage is a "pointless" institution
- 08/08/2010 08:05:45 PM
1161 Views
No, I was referring to same-sex marriage. Real marriage hardly counts as a novelty. *NM*
- 11/08/2010 02:28:43 PM
477 Views
This must be the "thought out reaction" I've heard so much about.
- 08/08/2010 10:45:59 PM
1001 Views
You cannot be that stupid.
- 11/08/2010 03:10:55 PM
1286 Views
There's a lot of ridiculous arguments here, but I'll focus on just one of them...
- 11/08/2010 03:38:05 PM
1206 Views
A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too
- 08/08/2010 11:51:24 PM
1032 Views
Plolygamy and incest are not on the same level of bad.
- 09/08/2010 11:00:07 AM
1093 Views
Is that assumption valid?
- 09/08/2010 11:36:26 AM
1018 Views
Re: Is that assumption valid?
- 09/08/2010 11:46:42 AM
1008 Views
Re: Is that assumption valid?
- 09/08/2010 12:07:22 PM
1118 Views
Not really
- 09/08/2010 01:20:46 PM
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Re: Not really
- 09/08/2010 01:27:04 PM
1111 Views
Spoken like someone who does not have to insure an employee's six wives.
- 11/08/2010 03:11:57 PM
1148 Views
Re: A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too
- 09/08/2010 11:25:39 AM
1051 Views
Re: A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too
- 09/08/2010 11:51:50 AM
1015 Views
Re: A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too
- 09/08/2010 01:18:35 PM
1106 Views
Re: A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too
- 09/08/2010 02:54:19 PM
1132 Views
It should be noted again...
- 09/08/2010 08:59:32 PM
1136 Views
and how is it not a right?
- 09/08/2010 09:19:12 PM
1024 Views
My definition of rights...
- 09/08/2010 10:47:16 PM
1137 Views
mmm, but the UN has legally stated marriage as a right.
- 10/08/2010 02:52:03 AM
902 Views
Article 16 probably not a great example
- 10/08/2010 03:44:04 AM
991 Views
- 10/08/2010 03:44:04 AM
991 Views
You could just as easily move the emphasis...
- 10/08/2010 04:08:46 AM
1135 Views
If we need a more specific resolution...
- 10/08/2010 04:22:12 AM
1323 Views
No, the choice of 'Men and Women' is too specific in the context
- 10/08/2010 05:25:57 AM
1015 Views
Re: No, the choice of 'Men and Women' is too specific in the context
- 10/08/2010 03:04:39 PM
1336 Views
That's really a ridiculous stance, you do realize.
- 10/08/2010 03:23:02 PM
951 Views
The point is that marriage IS a right, one which cannot be denied based upon sexual orientation *NM*
- 10/08/2010 07:04:16 PM
755 Views
Re: No, the choice of 'Men and Women' is too specific in the context
- 10/08/2010 03:46:56 PM
1191 Views
It doesn't say a man can only marry a woman or vice versa, though.
- 10/08/2010 04:24:17 AM
1012 Views
I know, and that's been brought up before. But that's not my point.
- 10/08/2010 06:09:32 PM
991 Views
Re: I know, and that's been brought up before. But that's not my point.
- 10/08/2010 06:33:56 PM
918 Views
It's mentioned as a right in some SC decision quoted in that Walker opinion. *NM*
- 10/08/2010 06:51:13 PM
491 Views
To clarify for you
- 10/08/2010 05:36:14 AM
993 Views
The UNSC is actually the UN's enforcement body...
- 10/08/2010 07:16:31 PM
1380 Views
I'm not sure that I would call the Security Council the 'Enforcement Body'
- 10/08/2010 08:43:02 PM
991 Views
The fact that it is capable of authorizing the use of military force makes it an enforcement body
- 10/08/2010 10:33:59 PM
1275 Views
What the UN thinks is *completely* worthless....
- 10/08/2010 06:43:15 PM
940 Views
Why don't YOU back up your assertion that the right to marry exists? *NM*
- 11/08/2010 03:16:02 PM
525 Views
The actual ruling on Prop 8 specifices marriage as a freedom, not a right.
- 10/08/2010 12:02:17 AM
1120 Views
Out of curiosity, what would you say to using the Ninth Amendment, possibly in conjunction...
- 10/08/2010 12:20:19 AM
1178 Views
Note it all you want...
- 10/08/2010 06:43:53 AM
869 Views
No, they seek to expand the terms of the partnership. Homosexuals can & do get married normally *NM*
- 11/08/2010 03:14:25 PM
561 Views
The best one yet.
- 10/08/2010 07:59:17 PM
1128 Views
Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane
- 10/08/2010 08:49:24 PM
985 Views
Re: Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane
- 10/08/2010 09:03:11 PM
1104 Views
Re: Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane
- 11/08/2010 04:35:03 PM
1008 Views
Re: Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane
- 11/08/2010 04:41:23 PM
1141 Views
Hmm - been a long time since I read my copy of the graphic novel
- 11/08/2010 05:06:47 PM
1110 Views
Re: Hmm - been a long time since I read my copy of the graphic novel
- 11/08/2010 05:09:23 PM
1059 Views
