Re: No, the choice of 'Men and Women' is too specific in the context
Isaac Send a noteboard - 10/08/2010 03:46:56 PM
Well it isn't techinically legally binding on an international level anyway. At the moment. But wait a few years and my point will stand. 

Not even a technicality, it's not a treaty and was never meant to be binding, I don't think that if it were a treaty it would have a snowballs chance in hell of being ratified, even with the normal senate exceptions and declarations tacked on to treaties.
Well it is arguable that the US is committing a whole series of violations, but Article 5 is the most blatent, 16 to follow it up. It never says that men and women have to be married to a member of the oppisite gender and though the choice of words may initially seem to provide fot that on further analysis it would at the very least permit homosexual marriage, at the most ensure it. I'm actually doing a campaign at my high school to get the UDHR integrated into the social studies curriculum, I think it is a major problem that so few people know or care about it.
The problem is lots of people go around declaring what something means, so courts decide, and I don't think you have made the case that the US and 181 of 192 other countries are not in violation of article 16.
Just because a vast majority of nations are committing a violation of the UDHR doesn't mean that it isn't a violation. Perhaps the ICJ needs to step and and make a judicial ruling on this, but until then I will hold that the UDHR provides for homosexual marriage.
If it makes you feel better go ahead
The ICJ is not likely to rule more liberally than the European Court on Human Rights, which ruled there was no violation of human rights about a month ago on a gay marriage case arising in Austria. If most countries don't allow gay marriage though, that doesn't mean it's right or wrong, but it does mean the current consensus of opinion is that it isn't a right, and naysayers are well advised to remember that 'on the international stage' the US has far more liberal laws on homosexuality than most countries. But whether it does or doesn't call it a right or allow gay marriage, it's basically tilting at windmills since it has no legal power and was designed not to have legal power. Our courts regularly borrow foreign judicial rulings as examples, they do not cite them as having legal power [some exceptions like maritime law]. The UHDR, while considerably more ethical than human rights laws of say, China, have no more legal weight in the US.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
This message last edited by Isaac on 10/08/2010 at 03:48:43 PM
Let's ban all Christian Marriage.
- 07/08/2010 06:36:13 AM
1805 Views
Nice satire, but it raises another point for me.
- 07/08/2010 07:20:49 AM
1187 Views
That would only be appropriate if Christians wanted to ban secular unions of normal people.
- 07/08/2010 11:51:29 AM
1446 Views
Hey, look! There was a point over there!
- 07/08/2010 03:46:41 PM
1267 Views
Who else should make those decisions?
- 07/08/2010 08:00:39 PM
1209 Views
I'd totally...
- 08/08/2010 04:14:15 AM
1115 Views
I'd totally...
- 08/08/2010 06:17:30 AM
1276 Views
I used to think Joel was the biggest rambler on this site. I am seriously reconsidering.
- 08/08/2010 05:24:56 AM
1219 Views
And my assessment of one poster as the most content-poor, non-contributing slug is unchanged
- 08/08/2010 07:17:02 PM
1126 Views
*Shakes Head*
- 08/08/2010 06:23:47 AM
1084 Views
I highly doubt Cannoli is "scared" of homosexuals *NM*
- 08/08/2010 06:29:54 AM
603 Views
Perhaps not in the physical sense.
- 08/08/2010 06:35:53 AM
1190 Views
Re: Perhaps not in the physical sense.
- 08/08/2010 06:46:56 AM
1144 Views
Re: *Shakes Head*
- 08/08/2010 07:43:11 PM
1146 Views
I still do not see how you think marriage is a "pointless" institution
- 08/08/2010 08:05:45 PM
1260 Views
No, I was referring to same-sex marriage. Real marriage hardly counts as a novelty. *NM*
- 11/08/2010 02:28:43 PM
507 Views
This must be the "thought out reaction" I've heard so much about.
- 08/08/2010 10:45:59 PM
1078 Views
You cannot be that stupid.
- 11/08/2010 03:10:55 PM
1356 Views
There's a lot of ridiculous arguments here, but I'll focus on just one of them...
- 11/08/2010 03:38:05 PM
1300 Views
A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too
- 08/08/2010 11:51:24 PM
1124 Views
Plolygamy and incest are not on the same level of bad.
- 09/08/2010 11:00:07 AM
1166 Views
Is that assumption valid?
- 09/08/2010 11:36:26 AM
1093 Views
Re: Is that assumption valid?
- 09/08/2010 11:46:42 AM
1086 Views
Re: Is that assumption valid?
- 09/08/2010 12:07:22 PM
1196 Views
Not really
- 09/08/2010 01:20:46 PM
1053 Views
Re: Not really
- 09/08/2010 01:27:04 PM
1180 Views
Spoken like someone who does not have to insure an employee's six wives.
- 11/08/2010 03:11:57 PM
1228 Views
Re: A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too
- 09/08/2010 11:25:39 AM
1113 Views
Re: A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too
- 09/08/2010 11:51:50 AM
1083 Views
Re: A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too
- 09/08/2010 01:18:35 PM
1175 Views
Re: A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too
- 09/08/2010 02:54:19 PM
1203 Views
It should be noted again...
- 09/08/2010 08:59:32 PM
1208 Views
and how is it not a right?
- 09/08/2010 09:19:12 PM
1112 Views
My definition of rights...
- 09/08/2010 10:47:16 PM
1204 Views
mmm, but the UN has legally stated marriage as a right.
- 10/08/2010 02:52:03 AM
967 Views
Article 16 probably not a great example
- 10/08/2010 03:44:04 AM
1070 Views
- 10/08/2010 03:44:04 AM
1070 Views
You could just as easily move the emphasis...
- 10/08/2010 04:08:46 AM
1216 Views
If we need a more specific resolution...
- 10/08/2010 04:22:12 AM
1401 Views
No, the choice of 'Men and Women' is too specific in the context
- 10/08/2010 05:25:57 AM
1096 Views
Re: No, the choice of 'Men and Women' is too specific in the context
- 10/08/2010 03:04:39 PM
1407 Views
That's really a ridiculous stance, you do realize.
- 10/08/2010 03:23:02 PM
1007 Views
The point is that marriage IS a right, one which cannot be denied based upon sexual orientation *NM*
- 10/08/2010 07:04:16 PM
797 Views
Re: No, the choice of 'Men and Women' is too specific in the context
- 10/08/2010 03:46:56 PM
1256 Views
It doesn't say a man can only marry a woman or vice versa, though.
- 10/08/2010 04:24:17 AM
1081 Views
I know, and that's been brought up before. But that's not my point.
- 10/08/2010 06:09:32 PM
1058 Views
Re: I know, and that's been brought up before. But that's not my point.
- 10/08/2010 06:33:56 PM
1000 Views
It's mentioned as a right in some SC decision quoted in that Walker opinion. *NM*
- 10/08/2010 06:51:13 PM
523 Views
To clarify for you
- 10/08/2010 05:36:14 AM
1066 Views
The UNSC is actually the UN's enforcement body...
- 10/08/2010 07:16:31 PM
1454 Views
I'm not sure that I would call the Security Council the 'Enforcement Body'
- 10/08/2010 08:43:02 PM
1072 Views
The fact that it is capable of authorizing the use of military force makes it an enforcement body
- 10/08/2010 10:33:59 PM
1350 Views
What the UN thinks is *completely* worthless....
- 10/08/2010 06:43:15 PM
1021 Views
Why don't YOU back up your assertion that the right to marry exists? *NM*
- 11/08/2010 03:16:02 PM
559 Views
The actual ruling on Prop 8 specifices marriage as a freedom, not a right.
- 10/08/2010 12:02:17 AM
1190 Views
Out of curiosity, what would you say to using the Ninth Amendment, possibly in conjunction...
- 10/08/2010 12:20:19 AM
1248 Views
Note it all you want...
- 10/08/2010 06:43:53 AM
942 Views
No, they seek to expand the terms of the partnership. Homosexuals can & do get married normally *NM*
- 11/08/2010 03:14:25 PM
603 Views
The best one yet.
- 10/08/2010 07:59:17 PM
1202 Views
Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane
- 10/08/2010 08:49:24 PM
1068 Views
Re: Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane
- 10/08/2010 09:03:11 PM
1171 Views
Re: Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane
- 11/08/2010 04:35:03 PM
1085 Views
Re: Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane
- 11/08/2010 04:41:23 PM
1212 Views
Hmm - been a long time since I read my copy of the graphic novel
- 11/08/2010 05:06:47 PM
1187 Views
Re: Hmm - been a long time since I read my copy of the graphic novel
- 11/08/2010 05:09:23 PM
1130 Views
