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Re: I know, and that's been brought up before. But that's not my point. Isaac Send a noteboard - 10/08/2010 06:33:56 PM
My point is that the UN has declared marriage to be a right. While the US does not have to subscribe to this, it does mean that western society as a whole has come to this conclusion and that there is some legal precedent for marriage being a right. And no one has presented any legal precedent for marriage NOT being a right, only claimed it.


Well going to the UN level isn't really necessary, the US constitution is not the only right-giving constitution in the country, there are 50 others, states have traditionally held power over marriage so it's probably more relevant to check state constitution to see if they refer to marriage as a right then the UDHR, I can scratch of Ohio though, the word marry and marriage never appear in the my state's constitution, or so a quick search of the pdf indicates, I would be a bit surprised if no state hadn't used the word 'right' in conjunction with marriage though. Of course, odds are if it had it would have been in reference to banning gay or polygamous unions and wouldn't set precedent if it was tossed out as unconstitutional, still, IMO it would be a better example than the UDHR of the point. In regards though, as an Ohioan, marriage is not mentioned in either my state or federal constitution, so that means it's not a right here, I should think, certainly not an explicitly mentioned right
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Let's ban all Christian Marriage. Dannymac - 07/08/2010 06:36:13 AM 1853 Views
Nice satire, but it raises another point for me. Helene - 07/08/2010 07:20:49 AM 1229 Views
One small problem... Phelix - 07/08/2010 08:02:34 AM 1229 Views
Re tax. Rebekah - 07/08/2010 08:47:22 AM 1287 Views
That seems sensible to me. SilverWarder - 09/08/2010 08:13:26 PM 1175 Views
Not sure what you mean by "demoted." Dannymac - 07/08/2010 03:50:02 PM 1298 Views
Nice. *NM* Camilla - 07/08/2010 08:58:20 AM 718 Views
That would only be appropriate if Christians wanted to ban secular unions of normal people. Cannoli - 07/08/2010 11:51:29 AM 1486 Views
Hey, look! There was a point over there! Dannymac - 07/08/2010 03:46:41 PM 1350 Views
Who else should make those decisions? Cannoli - 07/08/2010 08:00:39 PM 1260 Views
I'd totally... Ectheledhel - 08/08/2010 04:14:15 AM 1163 Views
I'd totally... ßelals Girl - 08/08/2010 06:17:30 AM 1324 Views
You'd defend this idiot? *NM* Ectheledhel - 08/08/2010 06:40:34 AM 595 Views
Indeed ßelals Girl - 08/08/2010 06:43:53 AM 1256 Views
I used to think Joel was the biggest rambler on this site. I am seriously reconsidering. everynametaken - 08/08/2010 05:24:56 AM 1262 Views
And my assessment of one poster as the most content-poor, non-contributing slug is unchanged Cannoli - 08/08/2010 07:17:02 PM 1167 Views
Um, ok. *NM* everynametaken - 10/08/2010 12:48:19 AM 601 Views
*Shakes Head* Dannymac - 08/08/2010 06:23:47 AM 1136 Views
I highly doubt Cannoli is "scared" of homosexuals *NM* ßelals Girl - 08/08/2010 06:29:54 AM 623 Views
Perhaps not in the physical sense. Great Lord of Chaos - 08/08/2010 06:35:53 AM 1251 Views
Re: Perhaps not in the physical sense. ßelals Girl - 08/08/2010 06:46:56 AM 1187 Views
Gah! You did that on purpose! Vodalus - 09/08/2010 01:05:13 AM 1131 Views
whoops *NM* ßelals Girl - 09/08/2010 02:22:49 AM 557 Views
Re: *Shakes Head* Cannoli - 08/08/2010 07:43:11 PM 1184 Views
I still do not see how you think marriage is a "pointless" institution LadyLorraine - 08/08/2010 08:05:45 PM 1348 Views
No, I was referring to same-sex marriage. Real marriage hardly counts as a novelty. *NM* Cannoli - 11/08/2010 02:28:43 PM 530 Views
This must be the "thought out reaction" I've heard so much about. Dannymac - 08/08/2010 10:45:59 PM 1139 Views
You cannot be that stupid. Cannoli - 11/08/2010 03:10:55 PM 1398 Views
There's a lot of ridiculous arguments here, but I'll focus on just one of them... Legolas - 11/08/2010 03:38:05 PM 1340 Views
Incorrect. Genders are not treated equally. Dreaded Anomaly - 11/08/2010 07:53:00 PM 1523 Views
all you need is enough support to pass an amendment random thoughts - 08/08/2010 02:46:08 PM 1122 Views
A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too Isaac - 08/08/2010 11:51:24 PM 1192 Views
And what is wrong with polygamy? *NM* Ectheledhel - 09/08/2010 10:36:53 AM 617 Views
Did I say there was anything? Isaac - 09/08/2010 11:03:10 AM 1263 Views
Plolygamy and incest are not on the same level of bad. Camilla - 09/08/2010 11:00:07 AM 1211 Views
Is that assumption valid? Isaac - 09/08/2010 11:36:26 AM 1152 Views
Re: Is that assumption valid? Camilla - 09/08/2010 11:46:42 AM 1123 Views
Re: Is that assumption valid? Isaac - 09/08/2010 12:07:22 PM 1237 Views
Not really snoopcester - 09/08/2010 01:20:46 PM 1094 Views
Re: Not really Isaac - 09/08/2010 01:27:04 PM 1215 Views
Re: Not really snoopcester - 09/08/2010 02:14:43 PM 1086 Views
Re: Not really Isaac - 09/08/2010 03:06:31 PM 1276 Views
Spoken like someone who does not have to insure an employee's six wives. Cannoli - 11/08/2010 03:11:57 PM 1292 Views
... Camilla - 11/08/2010 03:22:50 PM 1160 Views
Re: A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too snoopcester - 09/08/2010 11:25:39 AM 1163 Views
Re: A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too Isaac - 09/08/2010 11:51:50 AM 1127 Views
Re: A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too snoopcester - 09/08/2010 01:18:35 PM 1225 Views
Re: A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too Isaac - 09/08/2010 02:54:19 PM 1248 Views
Mmm, but when you're strictly discussing marriage LadyLorraine - 09/08/2010 06:13:30 PM 1282 Views
Re: Mmm, but when you're strictly discussing marriage Isaac - 10/08/2010 01:24:06 AM 1087 Views
Now I think about it, I'm not sure. Dannymac - 10/08/2010 04:09:43 PM 1209 Views
Re: Now I think about it, I'm not sure. Isaac - 10/08/2010 06:12:39 PM 1135 Views
Great post Danny SilverWarder - 09/08/2010 08:22:27 PM 985 Views
It should be noted again... Jeordam - 09/08/2010 08:59:32 PM 1246 Views
and how is it not a right? LadyLorraine - 09/08/2010 09:19:12 PM 1159 Views
My definition of rights... Jeordam - 09/08/2010 10:47:16 PM 1244 Views
mmm, but the UN has legally stated marriage as a right. LadyLorraine - 10/08/2010 02:52:03 AM 1013 Views
+1 Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 03:11:22 AM 1304 Views
Article 16 probably not a great example Isaac - 10/08/2010 03:44:04 AM 1110 Views
You could just as easily move the emphasis... Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 04:08:46 AM 1269 Views
If we need a more specific resolution... Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 04:22:12 AM 1450 Views
No, the choice of 'Men and Women' is too specific in the context Isaac - 10/08/2010 05:25:57 AM 1146 Views
Re: No, the choice of 'Men and Women' is too specific in the context Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 03:04:39 PM 1450 Views
That's really a ridiculous stance, you do realize. Legolas - 10/08/2010 03:23:02 PM 1047 Views
The point is that marriage IS a right, one which cannot be denied based upon sexual orientation *NM* Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 07:04:16 PM 833 Views
Re: No, the choice of 'Men and Women' is too specific in the context Isaac - 10/08/2010 03:46:56 PM 1308 Views
It doesn't say a man can only marry a woman or vice versa, though. Dreaded Anomaly - 10/08/2010 04:24:17 AM 1121 Views
It also doesn't say they can Isaac - 10/08/2010 04:41:18 AM 1119 Views
You're missing the point. It's not about gay marriage. Legolas - 10/08/2010 11:20:59 AM 1155 Views
No, I got that, I'm pointing out how it does so Isaac - 10/08/2010 01:47:00 PM 1145 Views
I know, and that's been brought up before. But that's not my point. LadyLorraine - 10/08/2010 06:09:32 PM 1100 Views
Re: I know, and that's been brought up before. But that's not my point. Isaac - 10/08/2010 06:33:56 PM 1042 Views
It's mentioned as a right in some SC decision quoted in that Walker opinion. *NM* Legolas - 10/08/2010 06:51:13 PM 553 Views
To clarify for you SilverWarder - 10/08/2010 05:36:14 AM 1111 Views
The UNSC is actually the UN's enforcement body... Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 07:16:31 PM 1508 Views
I'm not sure that I would call the Security Council the 'Enforcement Body' SilverWarder - 10/08/2010 08:43:02 PM 1124 Views
The fact that it is capable of authorizing the use of military force makes it an enforcement body Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 10:33:59 PM 1389 Views
Disagree - but it's most a matter of definition there SilverWarder - 11/08/2010 04:31:53 PM 1271 Views
What the UN thinks is *completely* worthless.... Jeordam - 10/08/2010 06:43:15 PM 1074 Views
and the Constitution dictates nothing about marriage. *NM* LadyLorraine - 10/08/2010 11:46:24 PM 578 Views
That means it is up to the people. And they say "No." *NM* Cannoli - 11/08/2010 03:13:12 PM 589 Views
No, but it does dictate things about rights and discrimination SilverWarder - 12/08/2010 03:48:02 PM 1300 Views
Why don't YOU back up your assertion that the right to marry exists? *NM* Cannoli - 11/08/2010 03:16:02 PM 587 Views
The actual ruling on Prop 8 specifices marriage as a freedom, not a right. Dreaded Anomaly - 10/08/2010 12:02:17 AM 1231 Views
Out of curiosity, what would you say to using the Ninth Amendment, possibly in conjunction... Vodalus - 10/08/2010 12:20:19 AM 1289 Views
I agree LadyLorraine - 10/08/2010 06:11:19 PM 989 Views
Yeah but this can't be used to prove that it IS a right... Napoleon62 - 10/08/2010 07:30:57 PM 1443 Views
Note it all you want... Dannymac - 10/08/2010 06:43:53 AM 1005 Views
No, they seek to expand the terms of the partnership. Homosexuals can & do get married normally *NM* Cannoli - 11/08/2010 03:14:25 PM 632 Views
The best one yet. Camilla - 10/08/2010 07:59:17 PM 1246 Views
Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane SilverWarder - 10/08/2010 08:49:24 PM 1118 Views
Re: Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane Camilla - 10/08/2010 09:03:11 PM 1208 Views
Re: Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane SilverWarder - 11/08/2010 04:35:03 PM 1125 Views
Re: Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane Camilla - 11/08/2010 04:41:23 PM 1259 Views
Hmm - been a long time since I read my copy of the graphic novel SilverWarder - 11/08/2010 05:06:47 PM 1230 Views
Re: Hmm - been a long time since I read my copy of the graphic novel Camilla - 11/08/2010 05:09:23 PM 1176 Views
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