Do you have documents proving this assumption, or is it passed down verbal traditions?
Naturally he won't be able to provide documents as this tradition pre-dates writing.
However, he's not exactly, I think, entirely right. While a big part of the REASON marriage, or some kind of analogue of it, got started was due to agricultural property inheritance, we know that religion pre-dated agriculture as plenty of evidence for it is found in pre-agricultural anthropology. It seems likely that in those early cultures, religion and the 'marriage' ritual (which would have looked nothing like a Christian marriage of course) were probably pretty closely tied.
The cultural goal was to solidify and clarify inheritance, yes. However it is also worth noting that 'marriage' in some form may even somewhat pre-date agricultural settlement as quite a few nomadic cultures had an analogue. The Inuit do/did for instance, as did the plains indians and both were nomadic. However both were in contact with agricultural peoples and both have concepts of ownership so the tradition may be borrowed, or may be tied to the idea of ownership. I don't think anyone is entirely sure (and the reasons may not even be universal cross cultures).
And secondly, who are you (and the minority who have chosen a similar lifestyle) to change something that's been as defined for pretty much existance? Why should society change something so fundamental to accomidate you? [ Note: I'm not saying this in an arguing way, but more to get you to articulate why society should change to fit you. Change my mind. ]
Okay - just to be clear here - 'marriage' has not been 'defined for pretty much existence'. Not even close. Human beings have been on this planet for around a couple of million years. We don't know precisely how long marriage has been around, but what indications we do have don't show any evidence of it for much of that time. Civilization is only some ten to twenty thousand years old. (The step pyramid at Sahkarah is circa 12,000 and is not a bad rough marker for the start of 'civilization' as we might define it). I believe we can find records of some forms of familial bonding going back to the Sumerians but I don't know of any older than that. There are records that predate that time (not documentation, obviously as writing wasn't invented yet) but none of those that I know of give us any evidence of formal familial bonding.
Look at records throughout history. In the written archive, we see marriage records going back thousands of years. Note that these 'marriages' are not always by any means 'one man and one woman' that's a fairly modern concept that people are trying to apply in a revisionist way. Lots of ancient cultures practiced polygamy, including the pre-Christian Jews and a great many of their contemporaries. Polyandry and group marriages were not as common due to the biological impact of how such things affected inheritance. Also, due to warfare, there was frequently a shortage of men and a need for more babies to grow into soldiers. In fact Athens, which normally practiced non-plural marriage, briefly made polygamy not only legal but in some cases mandatory in order to breed more soldiers and grandfathered those marriages when they phased out that law later - this is how Socrates wound up with his two wives. In ancient Egypt plural marriage was the rule for the royal family and often quite common for the nobility, depending on the time period.
Now, if we look at all those cultures practicing some form of marriage (defined as formalized family bonding, not his 'one man/one woman' revisionist crap) you find not only written records, often tax documents, but also large amounts of artwork. Marriage ceremonies on plates done for the occasion, painted on the walls of tombs. In frescoes and mosaics. They're all over the place as they were a key thing in the culture.
But if we look at more ancient art - those depictions are absent. You see all kinds of things in cave paintings, but nothing that looks like a marriage ceremony. At least not that I've ever heard of or seen. Given how prevalent these are in later artworks across many cultures, it seems a pretty good indicator that, at that time, there simply was no form of marriage that had any kind of cultural significance and quite probably nothing of the sort at all.
May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk.
Old Egyptian Blessing
Old Egyptian Blessing
Gay Marriage
- 12/08/2010 10:23:19 AM
2135 Views
I disagree on the latter part
- 12/08/2010 12:04:15 PM
1467 Views
I follow your point...
- 12/08/2010 12:14:17 PM
1463 Views
Suspect you would find plenty of denominations that would argue with you rather strenuously.
- 12/08/2010 12:24:55 PM
1502 Views
See, that's what I'm saying...
- 12/08/2010 07:37:26 PM
1414 Views
You didn't read my post.
- 12/08/2010 09:10:21 PM
1343 Views
Actually, you didn't read my post
- 12/08/2010 09:23:54 PM
1429 Views
Um, you're wrong.
- 12/08/2010 09:37:13 PM
1365 Views
- 12/08/2010 09:37:13 PM
1365 Views
Re: Um, you're wrong.
- 12/08/2010 09:44:17 PM
1327 Views
- 12/08/2010 09:44:17 PM
1327 Views
Boy Scouts of America v. Dale. And no, he described it accurately. *NM*
- 12/08/2010 09:53:31 PM
688 Views
You're still wrong.
- 12/08/2010 09:54:55 PM
1473 Views
- 12/08/2010 09:54:55 PM
1473 Views
Re: You're still wrong.
- 12/08/2010 09:58:26 PM
1322 Views
- 12/08/2010 09:58:26 PM
1322 Views
Again, you are still wrong.
- 12/08/2010 10:04:42 PM
1397 Views
- 12/08/2010 10:04:42 PM
1397 Views
Re: Again, you are still wrong.
- 12/08/2010 10:17:13 PM
1223 Views
- 12/08/2010 10:17:13 PM
1223 Views
Wrong definition of "club"
- 12/08/2010 10:30:52 PM
1490 Views
Re: Wrong definition of "club"
- 12/08/2010 10:40:55 PM
1411 Views
Also
- 12/08/2010 10:02:44 PM
1444 Views
And wrong again.
- 12/08/2010 10:08:24 PM
1455 Views
- 12/08/2010 10:08:24 PM
1455 Views
Not so quick!
- 12/08/2010 10:21:31 PM
1287 Views
- 12/08/2010 10:21:31 PM
1287 Views
Yes, so quick!
- 12/08/2010 10:32:13 PM
1235 Views
Let's be reasonable here
- 12/08/2010 10:41:53 PM
1344 Views
Why do you get to judge?
- 12/08/2010 10:48:57 PM
1379 Views
I don't
- 12/08/2010 10:53:21 PM
1280 Views
OK.
- 12/08/2010 10:58:22 PM
1374 Views
Re: OK.
- 12/08/2010 11:03:50 PM
1344 Views
Here's the thing: your opinion seems to be informed by the Roman Catholic Faith.
- 12/08/2010 11:14:03 PM
1286 Views
Re: Here's the thing: your opinion seems to be informed by the Roman Catholic Faith.
- 12/08/2010 11:23:35 PM
1397 Views
Then please stop.
- 12/08/2010 11:01:05 PM
1349 Views
- 12/08/2010 11:01:05 PM
1349 Views
What's wrong with discussion?
- 12/08/2010 11:05:48 PM
1304 Views
Discussion? Nothing. Your assertions about other people's views, something.
- 12/08/2010 11:09:48 PM
1309 Views
What, because the expressive message of scouting is anti-gay?
- 12/08/2010 10:12:54 PM
1198 Views
Re: What, because the expressive message of scouting is anti-gay?
- 12/08/2010 10:23:36 PM
1322 Views
Well then that brings us back to my question, which you have yet to answer.
- 12/08/2010 10:36:48 PM
1319 Views
Re: Well then that brings us back to my question, which you have yet to answer.
- 12/08/2010 10:46:22 PM
1420 Views
Not entirely true either... or, well, true as far as Brown goes.
- 12/08/2010 10:08:42 PM
1292 Views
Actually, I did. And since everyone else told you you're wrong about that I didn't see any need
- 12/08/2010 09:38:33 PM
1389 Views
Re: Actually, I did. And since everyone else told you you're wrong about that I didn't see any need
- 12/08/2010 09:55:05 PM
1294 Views
Gah.
- 12/08/2010 09:59:45 PM
1246 Views
What a mature response.
- 12/08/2010 10:11:00 PM
1465 Views
I can't speak for Rebekah, but I don't think the issue is that your points are invalid per se.
- 12/08/2010 10:22:30 PM
1259 Views
Um
- 12/08/2010 09:46:43 PM
1411 Views
That's a very good question. *NM*
- 12/08/2010 09:49:05 PM
662 Views
It makes no sense
- 12/08/2010 04:29:24 PM
1249 Views
Re: It makes no sense
- 12/08/2010 07:39:25 PM
1311 Views
Re: It makes no sense
- 12/08/2010 07:41:02 PM
1413 Views
Yes, but while marrying two murderers does not ensure that they will continue to murder...
- 12/08/2010 09:08:53 PM
1235 Views
Re: Yes, but while marrying two murderers does not ensure that they will continue to murder...
- 12/08/2010 09:42:21 PM
1365 Views
What other church sanctioned circumstances encourage continued sin?
- 12/08/2010 09:45:33 PM
1401 Views
Re: What other church sanctioned circumstances encourage continued sin?
- 13/08/2010 11:04:02 AM
1395 Views
Wow, it's almost like an entire denomination believes that!
*NM*
- 13/08/2010 03:41:07 PM
654 Views
- 13/08/2010 03:43:26 PM
1145 Views
*NM*
- 13/08/2010 03:41:07 PM
654 Views
- 13/08/2010 03:43:26 PM
1145 Views
Yeah, that's the Roman Catholic basis against masturbation and contraception. *NM*
- 13/08/2010 04:12:00 PM
622 Views
Yes
- 13/08/2010 04:22:58 PM
1200 Views
Dude....please at least have a working knowledge of the Bible before you spout off.
- 12/08/2010 10:47:13 PM
1215 Views
secular marriage is decoupled from religious marriage
- 12/08/2010 02:50:43 PM
1435 Views
Simple, require the legal and religious marriage to be performed separately.
- 12/08/2010 02:58:43 PM
1267 Views
And they are, in fact, separate right now in the US. They're just called the same thing.
- 12/08/2010 03:29:26 PM
1309 Views
It's not the same name that's confusing so much as the single ceremony. Or so it seems to me.
- 12/08/2010 03:37:20 PM
1295 Views
I disagree. I think giving the legal institution the same name as the sacrament is the problem.
- 12/08/2010 03:59:43 PM
1290 Views
What in the world would that accomplish?
- 12/08/2010 03:44:32 PM
1345 Views
Provide some much-needed clarity, evidently.
- 12/08/2010 03:49:33 PM
1174 Views
the problem is it would be changing a centuries old tradition..
- 12/08/2010 04:26:47 PM
1218 Views
heheheheheheheHAHAHAHEHEHehehehehahheeh*cough*
- 12/08/2010 04:55:09 PM
1230 Views
thats OK I am sure you will get over it
- 12/08/2010 05:22:08 PM
1245 Views
Just guessing, but I think it was the "centuries old tradition" that set off the giggle fit.
- 12/08/2010 07:25:38 PM
1345 Views
Really? I was hoping for something better
- 12/08/2010 10:06:00 PM
1292 Views
So government recognition makes your religion meaningful?
- 12/08/2010 10:11:54 PM
1405 Views
not my religion I'm agnostic
- 12/08/2010 10:34:40 PM
1237 Views
I'm not far left, thank you very much. *NM*
- 12/08/2010 10:20:31 PM
719 Views
no but your are European and that slants your views
*NM*
- 12/08/2010 10:36:01 PM
699 Views
*NM*
- 12/08/2010 10:36:01 PM
699 Views
Simples
- 12/08/2010 09:30:31 PM
1326 Views
there are about 140 post ranging from boyscouts to infant babtism
- 12/08/2010 10:57:46 PM
1288 Views
So.
- 14/08/2010 01:27:59 AM
1166 Views
sorry I responded I forgot what a tool you are. my bad
- 14/08/2010 02:48:57 AM
1681 Views
You spout some utter gibberish then dish out insults when called on it? Very funny
- 15/08/2010 12:47:04 PM
1521 Views
- 15/08/2010 12:47:04 PM
1521 Views
Agreed *NM*
- 12/08/2010 03:45:04 PM
578 Views
I love you, Camilla
- 12/08/2010 04:02:15 PM
1117 Views
Re: I love you, Camilla
- 12/08/2010 04:04:10 PM
1311 Views
A couple of things
- 12/08/2010 12:58:09 PM
1305 Views
there is major flaw in your argument
- 12/08/2010 03:31:45 PM
1438 Views
Re: there is major flaw in your argument
- 12/08/2010 04:01:32 PM
1317 Views
I should clarify that I support gay marriage
- 12/08/2010 05:20:36 PM
1261 Views
One point about Prop. 8
- 12/08/2010 07:38:55 PM
1279 Views
I know that is the commonl;y held belief but I thinkit is wrong
- 12/08/2010 10:32:58 PM
1208 Views
Religious institutions, though, pushed hard to pass it.
- 12/08/2010 10:42:33 PM
1301 Views
that doesn’t translate into people voting for religious reasons
- 12/08/2010 11:19:48 PM
1109 Views
Bigotry and Fear that are supported and encouraged by religious institutions.
- 12/08/2010 11:32:30 PM
1281 Views
there are major flaws in your argument
- 12/08/2010 07:51:52 PM
1441 Views
Women can't be priests in the Catholic church.
- 12/08/2010 08:00:24 PM
1064 Views
Forcing religious institutions to marry gay couples is hideously unconstitutional.
- 12/08/2010 04:18:59 PM
1381 Views
You are absolutely wrong
- 12/08/2010 07:57:19 PM
1350 Views
Your arguments are so specious and stupid I don't know where to begin.
- 13/08/2010 05:04:17 AM
1245 Views
Why do people equate....
- 12/08/2010 07:11:15 PM
1304 Views
Because "homophobic", like "xenophobic", has shifted a bit in meaning...
- 12/08/2010 07:33:56 PM
1326 Views
Because your reasons for being against gay marriage are so specious *NM*
- 12/08/2010 07:59:42 PM
724 Views
I particularly enjoy the implied assumption that your a good enough judge of my motivations. *NM*
- 12/08/2010 09:24:14 PM
679 Views
Re: Why do people equate....
- 12/08/2010 08:04:24 PM
1499 Views
+1
- 12/08/2010 08:06:19 PM
1443 Views
Stop with the pile on Camilla.
- 12/08/2010 09:22:35 PM
1371 Views
You would have said nothing if I had just said "agreed"
- 12/08/2010 09:27:33 PM
1193 Views
Which speaks highly of you....
- 12/08/2010 09:36:30 PM
1391 Views
This is being very petty. *NM*
- 12/08/2010 09:41:26 PM
685 Views
As opposed to a snarky +1 comment? *NM*
- 12/08/2010 09:45:02 PM
702 Views
It's not snarky.
- 12/08/2010 09:47:47 PM
1354 Views
Its a +1 shorthand comment...
- 12/08/2010 09:52:04 PM
1609 Views
Wow. Those two characters allowed you to read Camilla's motivations?
- 12/08/2010 09:54:25 PM
1231 Views
Re: Why do people equate....
- 12/08/2010 09:13:07 PM
1438 Views
you are exactly why the state needs to make a clear seperation between the secular and religious
- 12/08/2010 09:33:22 PM
1288 Views
Ok, so if the state does then...
- 12/08/2010 09:44:31 PM
1208 Views
No, marriage started because of property.
- 12/08/2010 09:59:14 PM
1324 Views
So then two things come to mind...
- 12/08/2010 10:04:39 PM
1289 Views
Only two?
- 12/08/2010 10:27:08 PM
1295 Views
- 12/08/2010 10:27:08 PM
1295 Views
That's a little difficult to do
- 13/08/2010 03:19:32 PM
1506 Views
Re: That's a little difficult to do
- 13/08/2010 03:30:14 PM
1358 Views
yes but about half of the old testament deals with protecting those rights
- 13/08/2010 05:16:09 PM
1289 Views
The relationship between religion and rain go even farther back...
- 13/08/2010 06:15:32 PM
1286 Views
Actually, I agree with that
- 12/08/2010 10:01:37 PM
1181 Views
See, what I don't get is why gay people care about
- 12/08/2010 08:18:45 PM
1282 Views
It's mostly about getting married in the eyes of the state.
- 12/08/2010 08:42:52 PM
1390 Views
I'm fairly sure Jonte was referring only to the "churches have to accept gay marriages" bit. *NM*
- 12/08/2010 08:44:52 PM
716 Views
Starting again
- 12/08/2010 08:23:08 PM
1405 Views
Not at all
- 12/08/2010 10:58:45 PM
1328 Views
Re: Not at all
- 13/08/2010 09:14:48 AM
1100 Views
Agreed *NM*
- 13/08/2010 10:21:06 AM
579 Views
Oh dear
- 13/08/2010 10:30:45 AM
1202 Views
I suppose you also think that religious Pacifists should be eligible for the draft?
- 12/08/2010 08:42:21 PM
1363 Views

*NM*
*NM*
*NM*