Do you have documents proving this assumption, or is it passed down verbal traditions?
Naturally he won't be able to provide documents as this tradition pre-dates writing.
However, he's not exactly, I think, entirely right. While a big part of the REASON marriage, or some kind of analogue of it, got started was due to agricultural property inheritance, we know that religion pre-dated agriculture as plenty of evidence for it is found in pre-agricultural anthropology. It seems likely that in those early cultures, religion and the 'marriage' ritual (which would have looked nothing like a Christian marriage of course) were probably pretty closely tied.
The cultural goal was to solidify and clarify inheritance, yes. However it is also worth noting that 'marriage' in some form may even somewhat pre-date agricultural settlement as quite a few nomadic cultures had an analogue. The Inuit do/did for instance, as did the plains indians and both were nomadic. However both were in contact with agricultural peoples and both have concepts of ownership so the tradition may be borrowed, or may be tied to the idea of ownership. I don't think anyone is entirely sure (and the reasons may not even be universal cross cultures).
And secondly, who are you (and the minority who have chosen a similar lifestyle) to change something that's been as defined for pretty much existance? Why should society change something so fundamental to accomidate you? [ Note: I'm not saying this in an arguing way, but more to get you to articulate why society should change to fit you. Change my mind. ]
Okay - just to be clear here - 'marriage' has not been 'defined for pretty much existence'. Not even close. Human beings have been on this planet for around a couple of million years. We don't know precisely how long marriage has been around, but what indications we do have don't show any evidence of it for much of that time. Civilization is only some ten to twenty thousand years old. (The step pyramid at Sahkarah is circa 12,000 and is not a bad rough marker for the start of 'civilization' as we might define it). I believe we can find records of some forms of familial bonding going back to the Sumerians but I don't know of any older than that. There are records that predate that time (not documentation, obviously as writing wasn't invented yet) but none of those that I know of give us any evidence of formal familial bonding.
Look at records throughout history. In the written archive, we see marriage records going back thousands of years. Note that these 'marriages' are not always by any means 'one man and one woman' that's a fairly modern concept that people are trying to apply in a revisionist way. Lots of ancient cultures practiced polygamy, including the pre-Christian Jews and a great many of their contemporaries. Polyandry and group marriages were not as common due to the biological impact of how such things affected inheritance. Also, due to warfare, there was frequently a shortage of men and a need for more babies to grow into soldiers. In fact Athens, which normally practiced non-plural marriage, briefly made polygamy not only legal but in some cases mandatory in order to breed more soldiers and grandfathered those marriages when they phased out that law later - this is how Socrates wound up with his two wives. In ancient Egypt plural marriage was the rule for the royal family and often quite common for the nobility, depending on the time period.
Now, if we look at all those cultures practicing some form of marriage (defined as formalized family bonding, not his 'one man/one woman' revisionist crap) you find not only written records, often tax documents, but also large amounts of artwork. Marriage ceremonies on plates done for the occasion, painted on the walls of tombs. In frescoes and mosaics. They're all over the place as they were a key thing in the culture.
But if we look at more ancient art - those depictions are absent. You see all kinds of things in cave paintings, but nothing that looks like a marriage ceremony. At least not that I've ever heard of or seen. Given how prevalent these are in later artworks across many cultures, it seems a pretty good indicator that, at that time, there simply was no form of marriage that had any kind of cultural significance and quite probably nothing of the sort at all.
May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk.
Old Egyptian Blessing
Old Egyptian Blessing
Gay Marriage
- 12/08/2010 10:23:19 AM
2016 Views
I disagree on the latter part
- 12/08/2010 12:04:15 PM
1353 Views
I follow your point...
- 12/08/2010 12:14:17 PM
1342 Views
Suspect you would find plenty of denominations that would argue with you rather strenuously.
- 12/08/2010 12:24:55 PM
1377 Views
See, that's what I'm saying...
- 12/08/2010 07:37:26 PM
1309 Views
You didn't read my post.
- 12/08/2010 09:10:21 PM
1227 Views
Actually, you didn't read my post
- 12/08/2010 09:23:54 PM
1302 Views
Um, you're wrong.
- 12/08/2010 09:37:13 PM
1252 Views
- 12/08/2010 09:37:13 PM
1252 Views
Re: Um, you're wrong.
- 12/08/2010 09:44:17 PM
1222 Views
- 12/08/2010 09:44:17 PM
1222 Views
Boy Scouts of America v. Dale. And no, he described it accurately. *NM*
- 12/08/2010 09:53:31 PM
626 Views
You're still wrong.
- 12/08/2010 09:54:55 PM
1357 Views
- 12/08/2010 09:54:55 PM
1357 Views
Re: You're still wrong.
- 12/08/2010 09:58:26 PM
1209 Views
- 12/08/2010 09:58:26 PM
1209 Views
Again, you are still wrong.
- 12/08/2010 10:04:42 PM
1271 Views
- 12/08/2010 10:04:42 PM
1271 Views
Re: Again, you are still wrong.
- 12/08/2010 10:17:13 PM
1106 Views
- 12/08/2010 10:17:13 PM
1106 Views
Wrong definition of "club"
- 12/08/2010 10:30:52 PM
1365 Views
Re: Wrong definition of "club"
- 12/08/2010 10:40:55 PM
1270 Views
Also
- 12/08/2010 10:02:44 PM
1317 Views
And wrong again.
- 12/08/2010 10:08:24 PM
1337 Views
- 12/08/2010 10:08:24 PM
1337 Views
Not so quick!
- 12/08/2010 10:21:31 PM
1173 Views
- 12/08/2010 10:21:31 PM
1173 Views
Yes, so quick!
- 12/08/2010 10:32:13 PM
1120 Views
Let's be reasonable here
- 12/08/2010 10:41:53 PM
1232 Views
Why do you get to judge?
- 12/08/2010 10:48:57 PM
1267 Views
I don't
- 12/08/2010 10:53:21 PM
1151 Views
OK.
- 12/08/2010 10:58:22 PM
1261 Views
Re: OK.
- 12/08/2010 11:03:50 PM
1222 Views
Here's the thing: your opinion seems to be informed by the Roman Catholic Faith.
- 12/08/2010 11:14:03 PM
1166 Views
Re: Here's the thing: your opinion seems to be informed by the Roman Catholic Faith.
- 12/08/2010 11:23:35 PM
1279 Views
Then please stop.
- 12/08/2010 11:01:05 PM
1227 Views
- 12/08/2010 11:01:05 PM
1227 Views
What's wrong with discussion?
- 12/08/2010 11:05:48 PM
1177 Views
Discussion? Nothing. Your assertions about other people's views, something.
- 12/08/2010 11:09:48 PM
1199 Views
What, because the expressive message of scouting is anti-gay?
- 12/08/2010 10:12:54 PM
1083 Views
Re: What, because the expressive message of scouting is anti-gay?
- 12/08/2010 10:23:36 PM
1209 Views
Well then that brings us back to my question, which you have yet to answer.
- 12/08/2010 10:36:48 PM
1185 Views
Re: Well then that brings us back to my question, which you have yet to answer.
- 12/08/2010 10:46:22 PM
1285 Views
Not entirely true either... or, well, true as far as Brown goes.
- 12/08/2010 10:08:42 PM
1183 Views
Actually, I did. And since everyone else told you you're wrong about that I didn't see any need
- 12/08/2010 09:38:33 PM
1267 Views
Re: Actually, I did. And since everyone else told you you're wrong about that I didn't see any need
- 12/08/2010 09:55:05 PM
1178 Views
Gah.
- 12/08/2010 09:59:45 PM
1134 Views
What a mature response.
- 12/08/2010 10:11:00 PM
1335 Views
I can't speak for Rebekah, but I don't think the issue is that your points are invalid per se.
- 12/08/2010 10:22:30 PM
1134 Views
Um
- 12/08/2010 09:46:43 PM
1284 Views
That's a very good question. *NM*
- 12/08/2010 09:49:05 PM
598 Views
It makes no sense
- 12/08/2010 04:29:24 PM
1126 Views
Re: It makes no sense
- 12/08/2010 07:39:25 PM
1202 Views
Re: It makes no sense
- 12/08/2010 07:41:02 PM
1294 Views
Yes, but while marrying two murderers does not ensure that they will continue to murder...
- 12/08/2010 09:08:53 PM
1117 Views
Re: Yes, but while marrying two murderers does not ensure that they will continue to murder...
- 12/08/2010 09:42:21 PM
1227 Views
What other church sanctioned circumstances encourage continued sin?
- 12/08/2010 09:45:33 PM
1284 Views
Re: What other church sanctioned circumstances encourage continued sin?
- 13/08/2010 11:04:02 AM
1236 Views
Wow, it's almost like an entire denomination believes that!
*NM*
- 13/08/2010 03:41:07 PM
597 Views
- 13/08/2010 03:43:26 PM
1029 Views
*NM*
- 13/08/2010 03:41:07 PM
597 Views
- 13/08/2010 03:43:26 PM
1029 Views
Yeah, that's the Roman Catholic basis against masturbation and contraception. *NM*
- 13/08/2010 04:12:00 PM
564 Views
Yes
- 13/08/2010 04:22:58 PM
1068 Views
Dude....please at least have a working knowledge of the Bible before you spout off.
- 12/08/2010 10:47:13 PM
1103 Views
secular marriage is decoupled from religious marriage
- 12/08/2010 02:50:43 PM
1306 Views
Simple, require the legal and religious marriage to be performed separately.
- 12/08/2010 02:58:43 PM
1129 Views
And they are, in fact, separate right now in the US. They're just called the same thing.
- 12/08/2010 03:29:26 PM
1176 Views
It's not the same name that's confusing so much as the single ceremony. Or so it seems to me.
- 12/08/2010 03:37:20 PM
1185 Views
I disagree. I think giving the legal institution the same name as the sacrament is the problem.
- 12/08/2010 03:59:43 PM
1167 Views
What in the world would that accomplish?
- 12/08/2010 03:44:32 PM
1229 Views
Provide some much-needed clarity, evidently.
- 12/08/2010 03:49:33 PM
1065 Views
the problem is it would be changing a centuries old tradition..
- 12/08/2010 04:26:47 PM
1081 Views
heheheheheheheHAHAHAHEHEHehehehehahheeh*cough*
- 12/08/2010 04:55:09 PM
1112 Views
thats OK I am sure you will get over it
- 12/08/2010 05:22:08 PM
1119 Views
Just guessing, but I think it was the "centuries old tradition" that set off the giggle fit.
- 12/08/2010 07:25:38 PM
1242 Views
Really? I was hoping for something better
- 12/08/2010 10:06:00 PM
1175 Views
So government recognition makes your religion meaningful?
- 12/08/2010 10:11:54 PM
1265 Views
not my religion I'm agnostic
- 12/08/2010 10:34:40 PM
1124 Views
I'm not far left, thank you very much. *NM*
- 12/08/2010 10:20:31 PM
662 Views
no but your are European and that slants your views
*NM*
- 12/08/2010 10:36:01 PM
642 Views
*NM*
- 12/08/2010 10:36:01 PM
642 Views
Simples
- 12/08/2010 09:30:31 PM
1200 Views
there are about 140 post ranging from boyscouts to infant babtism
- 12/08/2010 10:57:46 PM
1166 Views
So.
- 14/08/2010 01:27:59 AM
1049 Views
sorry I responded I forgot what a tool you are. my bad
- 14/08/2010 02:48:57 AM
1561 Views
You spout some utter gibberish then dish out insults when called on it? Very funny
- 15/08/2010 12:47:04 PM
1380 Views
- 15/08/2010 12:47:04 PM
1380 Views
Agreed *NM*
- 12/08/2010 03:45:04 PM
519 Views
I love you, Camilla
- 12/08/2010 04:02:15 PM
997 Views
Re: I love you, Camilla
- 12/08/2010 04:04:10 PM
1192 Views
A couple of things
- 12/08/2010 12:58:09 PM
1181 Views
there is major flaw in your argument
- 12/08/2010 03:31:45 PM
1309 Views
Re: there is major flaw in your argument
- 12/08/2010 04:01:32 PM
1197 Views
I should clarify that I support gay marriage
- 12/08/2010 05:20:36 PM
1130 Views
One point about Prop. 8
- 12/08/2010 07:38:55 PM
1164 Views
I know that is the commonl;y held belief but I thinkit is wrong
- 12/08/2010 10:32:58 PM
1092 Views
Religious institutions, though, pushed hard to pass it.
- 12/08/2010 10:42:33 PM
1185 Views
that doesn’t translate into people voting for religious reasons
- 12/08/2010 11:19:48 PM
1000 Views
Bigotry and Fear that are supported and encouraged by religious institutions.
- 12/08/2010 11:32:30 PM
1166 Views
there are major flaws in your argument
- 12/08/2010 07:51:52 PM
1311 Views
Women can't be priests in the Catholic church.
- 12/08/2010 08:00:24 PM
955 Views
Forcing religious institutions to marry gay couples is hideously unconstitutional.
- 12/08/2010 04:18:59 PM
1266 Views
You are absolutely wrong
- 12/08/2010 07:57:19 PM
1206 Views
Your arguments are so specious and stupid I don't know where to begin.
- 13/08/2010 05:04:17 AM
1137 Views
Why do people equate....
- 12/08/2010 07:11:15 PM
1157 Views
Because "homophobic", like "xenophobic", has shifted a bit in meaning...
- 12/08/2010 07:33:56 PM
1211 Views
Because your reasons for being against gay marriage are so specious *NM*
- 12/08/2010 07:59:42 PM
657 Views
I particularly enjoy the implied assumption that your a good enough judge of my motivations. *NM*
- 12/08/2010 09:24:14 PM
622 Views
Re: Why do people equate....
- 12/08/2010 08:04:24 PM
1368 Views
+1
- 12/08/2010 08:06:19 PM
1317 Views
Stop with the pile on Camilla.
- 12/08/2010 09:22:35 PM
1238 Views
You would have said nothing if I had just said "agreed"
- 12/08/2010 09:27:33 PM
1067 Views
Which speaks highly of you....
- 12/08/2010 09:36:30 PM
1244 Views
This is being very petty. *NM*
- 12/08/2010 09:41:26 PM
606 Views
As opposed to a snarky +1 comment? *NM*
- 12/08/2010 09:45:02 PM
629 Views
It's not snarky.
- 12/08/2010 09:47:47 PM
1219 Views
Its a +1 shorthand comment...
- 12/08/2010 09:52:04 PM
1477 Views
Wow. Those two characters allowed you to read Camilla's motivations?
- 12/08/2010 09:54:25 PM
1117 Views
Re: Why do people equate....
- 12/08/2010 09:13:07 PM
1302 Views
you are exactly why the state needs to make a clear seperation between the secular and religious
- 12/08/2010 09:33:22 PM
1167 Views
Ok, so if the state does then...
- 12/08/2010 09:44:31 PM
1093 Views
No, marriage started because of property.
- 12/08/2010 09:59:14 PM
1188 Views
So then two things come to mind...
- 12/08/2010 10:04:39 PM
1171 Views
Only two?
- 12/08/2010 10:27:08 PM
1163 Views
- 12/08/2010 10:27:08 PM
1163 Views
That's a little difficult to do
- 13/08/2010 03:19:32 PM
1376 Views
Re: That's a little difficult to do
- 13/08/2010 03:30:14 PM
1214 Views
yes but about half of the old testament deals with protecting those rights
- 13/08/2010 05:16:09 PM
1159 Views
The relationship between religion and rain go even farther back...
- 13/08/2010 06:15:32 PM
1169 Views
Actually, I agree with that
- 12/08/2010 10:01:37 PM
1061 Views
See, what I don't get is why gay people care about
- 12/08/2010 08:18:45 PM
1158 Views
It's mostly about getting married in the eyes of the state.
- 12/08/2010 08:42:52 PM
1272 Views
I'm fairly sure Jonte was referring only to the "churches have to accept gay marriages" bit. *NM*
- 12/08/2010 08:44:52 PM
655 Views
Starting again
- 12/08/2010 08:23:08 PM
1284 Views
Not at all
- 12/08/2010 10:58:45 PM
1187 Views
Re: Not at all
- 13/08/2010 09:14:48 AM
987 Views
Agreed *NM*
- 13/08/2010 10:21:06 AM
499 Views
Oh dear
- 13/08/2010 10:30:45 AM
1084 Views
I suppose you also think that religious Pacifists should be eligible for the draft?
- 12/08/2010 08:42:21 PM
1236 Views

*NM*
*NM*
*NM*