At the risk of paraphrasing He Who Must Not Be Named Online, I wouldn't expect to read a history book that said, "and so, after pitilessly slaughtering the badly outgunned Mexican Army, America had Santa Annas hands shackled in FRONT of him so he could sign the 'purchase agreement' more easily. " Certainly it would be odd for a TEXAS history book to record it that way (and we all know how important TX is in determining what the nations history books say.
) It may interest you to know that the principal Mexican objection to the Rio Grande as boundary with TX wasn't disagreement about what the peace treaty actually SAID, but the fact that Santa Anna was a bound prisoner when he signed his agreement (a fact he also raised himself to explain why he was President of Mexico AGAIN just ten years later, despite a peace treaty term that required him to forever renounce power. ) So, yeah, we cloaked our territorial gains in legal legitimacy, but, let's be honest here, after the capture of Monterrey Mexico had few options apart from full capitulation on whatever terms we deigned to offer. That we came back in another decade to "buy" more land only underscores that.
But that really goes back to the core of the question asked: It becomes permissible when you can get away with it, but whether it ever becomes truly moral may depend on whom you ask, and when. Which, if either, of those definitions fits what Dark Knight meant by "OK" only he and God can say. As a fellow Texan, I encounter this kind of sentiment regularly, and have found the best antidote to be rts: We don't take it because we don't WANT it; it wouldn't make anything better and would likely make things a lot worse (although it could get VERY interesting to see what happened globally when the US physically owned all of Mexicos substantial oil rights, but since we pioneered the practice of leasing it all to private entities pursuing a profit even if it means charging US taxpayers $4/gallon, I doubt much would change strategically. ) It's not exactly a dispassionate area to discuss, given the history (and current reality; most Mexicans will tell you they didn't HAVE a drug problem until wealthy US customers started buying contraband illegal in their own country; they certainly didn't lose national political leaders over it. )
) It may interest you to know that the principal Mexican objection to the Rio Grande as boundary with TX wasn't disagreement about what the peace treaty actually SAID, but the fact that Santa Anna was a bound prisoner when he signed his agreement (a fact he also raised himself to explain why he was President of Mexico AGAIN just ten years later, despite a peace treaty term that required him to forever renounce power. ) So, yeah, we cloaked our territorial gains in legal legitimacy, but, let's be honest here, after the capture of Monterrey Mexico had few options apart from full capitulation on whatever terms we deigned to offer. That we came back in another decade to "buy" more land only underscores that.But that really goes back to the core of the question asked: It becomes permissible when you can get away with it, but whether it ever becomes truly moral may depend on whom you ask, and when. Which, if either, of those definitions fits what Dark Knight meant by "OK" only he and God can say. As a fellow Texan, I encounter this kind of sentiment regularly, and have found the best antidote to be rts: We don't take it because we don't WANT it; it wouldn't make anything better and would likely make things a lot worse (although it could get VERY interesting to see what happened globally when the US physically owned all of Mexicos substantial oil rights, but since we pioneered the practice of leasing it all to private entities pursuing a profit even if it means charging US taxpayers $4/gallon, I doubt much would change strategically. ) It's not exactly a dispassionate area to discuss, given the history (and current reality; most Mexicans will tell you they didn't HAVE a drug problem until wealthy US customers started buying contraband illegal in their own country; they certainly didn't lose national political leaders over it. )
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
At what point does it become ok to take over a country?
- 16/08/2010 04:25:09 PM
1327 Views
why would we want to make Mexico our problem? *NM*
- 16/08/2010 04:30:48 PM
367 Views
Yeah that's why i don't want us to take over. I think the US is already too big as is *NM*
- 16/08/2010 04:37:41 PM
344 Views
One might argue it already is. The other way around too, though. *NM*
- 16/08/2010 04:44:19 PM
328 Views
I'm fairly sure that yes, the majority of them have national pride.
- 16/08/2010 04:51:38 PM
889 Views
Re: I'm fairly sure that yes, the majority of them have national pride.
- 16/08/2010 05:11:49 PM
731 Views
Actually, make that number 120 to 150. *NM*
- 16/08/2010 05:14:15 PM
343 Views
We don't invade countries we can't locate on the map...
- 16/08/2010 06:01:43 PM
980 Views
So that means there are only five or so countries you can invade, one of them yourself?
- 16/08/2010 06:11:43 PM
682 Views
- 16/08/2010 06:11:43 PM
682 Views
Re: So that means there are only five or so countries you can invade, one of them yourself?
- 16/08/2010 06:30:56 PM
910 Views
- 16/08/2010 06:30:56 PM
910 Views
When they get on your nerves or have something you want, preferably both
- 16/08/2010 05:04:10 PM
856 Views
I agree we should attack Canada instead
- 16/08/2010 05:19:48 PM
847 Views
Yeah, but they don't gouge us for the oil, cost the same as anyone else *NM*
- 16/08/2010 05:49:38 PM
349 Views
I would legalize drugs ten times over before I would annex Mexico.
- 16/08/2010 05:36:37 PM
922 Views
"I would stop doing a bad thing 10 times over before I did a worse thing"? WTF? *NM*
- 16/08/2010 06:04:48 PM
429 Views
Read the original post. He proposes annexing Mexico due to the drug problem.
- 16/08/2010 06:28:54 PM
898 Views
He's just nitpicking on your phrasing in the subject line. I think. *NM*
- 16/08/2010 06:37:17 PM
337 Views
that sounds like a much better immigration solution idea than "let's build a GIGANTIC FENCE!!!" *NM*
- 16/08/2010 06:33:46 PM
351 Views
Work Visas might help, but...
- 16/08/2010 06:51:11 PM
1051 Views
Oh i know it's not a complete solution and i have no problem with a fence
- 16/08/2010 07:43:26 PM
786 Views
Just so long as we're both on the 'multi-front solution' page
- 16/08/2010 08:35:06 PM
725 Views
- 16/08/2010 08:35:06 PM
725 Views
it's also worth noting that no one is proposing throwing out the Cubans
- 16/08/2010 08:54:46 PM
842 Views
- 16/08/2010 08:54:46 PM
842 Views
When the US says so. We are the bosses of the World, are we not? *NM*
- 16/08/2010 08:06:08 PM
352 Views
Not even Hitler's Germany? (if he never went to war but just stayed put) Reply to Yuna *NM*
- 16/08/2010 09:24:41 PM
439 Views
If he had never gone to war, that would also have meant no Holocaust... *NM*
- 16/08/2010 09:28:16 PM
343 Views
Really? Why is that? I'm not too terribly familiar with Hitler's reasons for mass genocide *NM*
- 16/08/2010 09:30:48 PM
350 Views
Dachau opened in '33, Nuremburg Laws were '35
- 16/08/2010 09:36:59 PM
782 Views
Ok that's what I was thinking
- 16/08/2010 09:45:51 PM
825 Views
Uh, yeah, see, there's a difference between "blaming" and "exterminating".
- 16/08/2010 09:52:37 PM
821 Views
Re: Uh, yeah, see, there's a difference between "blaming" and "exterminating".
- 16/08/2010 09:54:29 PM
763 Views
I don't know if there's really anything to specifically compare it to...
- 16/08/2010 10:00:59 PM
933 Views
Also, perhaps someone should just invoke the (variation of the) Godwin Law and stop this whole thing
- 16/08/2010 10:02:23 PM
837 Views
Ah,
- 16/08/2010 10:04:39 PM
747 Views
Nah, more like, I know I shouldn't have done this, but I couldn't resist. *NM*
- 16/08/2010 10:07:35 PM
362 Views
Well, you'll note I didn't make that causal relation you attribute to me.
- 16/08/2010 09:55:39 PM
872 Views
The Dachau follow up was bookkeeping
- 16/08/2010 10:05:35 PM
819 Views
I'm confused, but I'll take that as something I don't have to argue.
- 16/08/2010 10:09:16 PM
915 Views
Re: I'm confused, but I'll take that as something I don't have to argue.
- 16/08/2010 10:19:19 PM
794 Views
The US already took half of Mexico, so why not the other half?
- 16/08/2010 09:57:56 PM
870 Views
"Took" is an unfriendly word, we purchased it *NM*
- 16/08/2010 10:21:58 PM
359 Views
yes after a messy political and physical "conflict"
- 16/08/2010 10:53:22 PM
836 Views
There was also the Gasdsen Purchase
- 17/08/2010 12:30:21 AM
792 Views
The Gadsden Purchase was a pittance and an afterthought, as I'm sure you're aware.
- 18/08/2010 12:36:24 PM
711 Views
It is fairly large, but yes
- 18/08/2010 02:21:25 PM
780 Views
Well, yes, it WAS a purchase, but then, it would be.
- 18/08/2010 03:22:23 PM
1230 Views
and why did it belong to Mexico to begin with? *NM*
- 17/08/2010 01:28:28 AM
383 Views
same way
it seems to be the way most people who own the Americas came to own it.
- 17/08/2010 01:46:49 AM
658 Views
it seems to be the way most people who own the Americas came to own it.
- 17/08/2010 01:46:49 AM
658 Views
my best friend is an illegal and is going back to mexico in a few months
- 16/08/2010 11:28:11 PM
842 Views
every issue is simpler when you don't have faces to represent it for you. *NM*
- 16/08/2010 11:29:38 PM
354 Views
We should seal our border and peform drone strikes on cartels.
- 17/08/2010 12:58:37 AM
680 Views
Re: We should seal our border and peform drone strikes on cartels.
- 17/08/2010 02:39:11 AM
753 Views
Re: We should seal our border and peform drone strikes on cartels.
- 17/08/2010 03:34:59 AM
918 Views
I think maybe we've had enough of nation building for a while *NM*
- 17/08/2010 02:45:22 AM
335 Views
