At the risk of paraphrasing He Who Must Not Be Named Online, I wouldn't expect to read a history book that said, "and so, after pitilessly slaughtering the badly outgunned Mexican Army, America had Santa Annas hands shackled in FRONT of him so he could sign the 'purchase agreement' more easily. " Certainly it would be odd for a TEXAS history book to record it that way (and we all know how important TX is in determining what the nations history books say.
) It may interest you to know that the principal Mexican objection to the Rio Grande as boundary with TX wasn't disagreement about what the peace treaty actually SAID, but the fact that Santa Anna was a bound prisoner when he signed his agreement (a fact he also raised himself to explain why he was President of Mexico AGAIN just ten years later, despite a peace treaty term that required him to forever renounce power. ) So, yeah, we cloaked our territorial gains in legal legitimacy, but, let's be honest here, after the capture of Monterrey Mexico had few options apart from full capitulation on whatever terms we deigned to offer. That we came back in another decade to "buy" more land only underscores that.
But that really goes back to the core of the question asked: It becomes permissible when you can get away with it, but whether it ever becomes truly moral may depend on whom you ask, and when. Which, if either, of those definitions fits what Dark Knight meant by "OK" only he and God can say. As a fellow Texan, I encounter this kind of sentiment regularly, and have found the best antidote to be rts: We don't take it because we don't WANT it; it wouldn't make anything better and would likely make things a lot worse (although it could get VERY interesting to see what happened globally when the US physically owned all of Mexicos substantial oil rights, but since we pioneered the practice of leasing it all to private entities pursuing a profit even if it means charging US taxpayers $4/gallon, I doubt much would change strategically. ) It's not exactly a dispassionate area to discuss, given the history (and current reality; most Mexicans will tell you they didn't HAVE a drug problem until wealthy US customers started buying contraband illegal in their own country; they certainly didn't lose national political leaders over it. )
) It may interest you to know that the principal Mexican objection to the Rio Grande as boundary with TX wasn't disagreement about what the peace treaty actually SAID, but the fact that Santa Anna was a bound prisoner when he signed his agreement (a fact he also raised himself to explain why he was President of Mexico AGAIN just ten years later, despite a peace treaty term that required him to forever renounce power. ) So, yeah, we cloaked our territorial gains in legal legitimacy, but, let's be honest here, after the capture of Monterrey Mexico had few options apart from full capitulation on whatever terms we deigned to offer. That we came back in another decade to "buy" more land only underscores that.But that really goes back to the core of the question asked: It becomes permissible when you can get away with it, but whether it ever becomes truly moral may depend on whom you ask, and when. Which, if either, of those definitions fits what Dark Knight meant by "OK" only he and God can say. As a fellow Texan, I encounter this kind of sentiment regularly, and have found the best antidote to be rts: We don't take it because we don't WANT it; it wouldn't make anything better and would likely make things a lot worse (although it could get VERY interesting to see what happened globally when the US physically owned all of Mexicos substantial oil rights, but since we pioneered the practice of leasing it all to private entities pursuing a profit even if it means charging US taxpayers $4/gallon, I doubt much would change strategically. ) It's not exactly a dispassionate area to discuss, given the history (and current reality; most Mexicans will tell you they didn't HAVE a drug problem until wealthy US customers started buying contraband illegal in their own country; they certainly didn't lose national political leaders over it. )
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
At what point does it become ok to take over a country?
- 16/08/2010 04:25:09 PM
1468 Views
why would we want to make Mexico our problem? *NM*
- 16/08/2010 04:30:48 PM
441 Views
Yeah that's why i don't want us to take over. I think the US is already too big as is *NM*
- 16/08/2010 04:37:41 PM
412 Views
One might argue it already is. The other way around too, though. *NM*
- 16/08/2010 04:44:19 PM
399 Views
I'm fairly sure that yes, the majority of them have national pride.
- 16/08/2010 04:51:38 PM
1023 Views
Re: I'm fairly sure that yes, the majority of them have national pride.
- 16/08/2010 05:11:49 PM
866 Views
Actually, make that number 120 to 150. *NM*
- 16/08/2010 05:14:15 PM
418 Views
We don't invade countries we can't locate on the map...
- 16/08/2010 06:01:43 PM
1150 Views
So that means there are only five or so countries you can invade, one of them yourself?
- 16/08/2010 06:11:43 PM
853 Views
- 16/08/2010 06:11:43 PM
853 Views
Re: So that means there are only five or so countries you can invade, one of them yourself?
- 16/08/2010 06:30:56 PM
1044 Views
- 16/08/2010 06:30:56 PM
1044 Views
When they get on your nerves or have something you want, preferably both
- 16/08/2010 05:04:10 PM
994 Views
I agree we should attack Canada instead
- 16/08/2010 05:19:48 PM
1002 Views
Yeah, but they don't gouge us for the oil, cost the same as anyone else *NM*
- 16/08/2010 05:49:38 PM
412 Views
I would legalize drugs ten times over before I would annex Mexico.
- 16/08/2010 05:36:37 PM
1129 Views
"I would stop doing a bad thing 10 times over before I did a worse thing"? WTF? *NM*
- 16/08/2010 06:04:48 PM
497 Views
Read the original post. He proposes annexing Mexico due to the drug problem.
- 16/08/2010 06:28:54 PM
1055 Views
He's just nitpicking on your phrasing in the subject line. I think. *NM*
- 16/08/2010 06:37:17 PM
404 Views
that sounds like a much better immigration solution idea than "let's build a GIGANTIC FENCE!!!" *NM*
- 16/08/2010 06:33:46 PM
417 Views
Work Visas might help, but...
- 16/08/2010 06:51:11 PM
1193 Views
Oh i know it's not a complete solution and i have no problem with a fence
- 16/08/2010 07:43:26 PM
928 Views
Just so long as we're both on the 'multi-front solution' page
- 16/08/2010 08:35:06 PM
868 Views
- 16/08/2010 08:35:06 PM
868 Views
it's also worth noting that no one is proposing throwing out the Cubans
- 16/08/2010 08:54:46 PM
989 Views
- 16/08/2010 08:54:46 PM
989 Views
When the US says so. We are the bosses of the World, are we not? *NM*
- 16/08/2010 08:06:08 PM
428 Views
Not even Hitler's Germany? (if he never went to war but just stayed put) Reply to Yuna *NM*
- 16/08/2010 09:24:41 PM
521 Views
If he had never gone to war, that would also have meant no Holocaust... *NM*
- 16/08/2010 09:28:16 PM
409 Views
Really? Why is that? I'm not too terribly familiar with Hitler's reasons for mass genocide *NM*
- 16/08/2010 09:30:48 PM
446 Views
Dachau opened in '33, Nuremburg Laws were '35
- 16/08/2010 09:36:59 PM
921 Views
Ok that's what I was thinking
- 16/08/2010 09:45:51 PM
967 Views
Uh, yeah, see, there's a difference between "blaming" and "exterminating".
- 16/08/2010 09:52:37 PM
959 Views
Re: Uh, yeah, see, there's a difference between "blaming" and "exterminating".
- 16/08/2010 09:54:29 PM
899 Views
I don't know if there's really anything to specifically compare it to...
- 16/08/2010 10:00:59 PM
1086 Views
Also, perhaps someone should just invoke the (variation of the) Godwin Law and stop this whole thing
- 16/08/2010 10:02:23 PM
972 Views
Ah,
- 16/08/2010 10:04:39 PM
876 Views
Nah, more like, I know I shouldn't have done this, but I couldn't resist. *NM*
- 16/08/2010 10:07:35 PM
435 Views
Well, you'll note I didn't make that causal relation you attribute to me.
- 16/08/2010 09:55:39 PM
1018 Views
The Dachau follow up was bookkeeping
- 16/08/2010 10:05:35 PM
953 Views
I'm confused, but I'll take that as something I don't have to argue.
- 16/08/2010 10:09:16 PM
1055 Views
Re: I'm confused, but I'll take that as something I don't have to argue.
- 16/08/2010 10:19:19 PM
933 Views
The US already took half of Mexico, so why not the other half?
- 16/08/2010 09:57:56 PM
1015 Views
"Took" is an unfriendly word, we purchased it *NM*
- 16/08/2010 10:21:58 PM
421 Views
yes after a messy political and physical "conflict"
- 16/08/2010 10:53:22 PM
977 Views
There was also the Gasdsen Purchase
- 17/08/2010 12:30:21 AM
934 Views
The Gadsden Purchase was a pittance and an afterthought, as I'm sure you're aware.
- 18/08/2010 12:36:24 PM
878 Views
It is fairly large, but yes
- 18/08/2010 02:21:25 PM
925 Views
Well, yes, it WAS a purchase, but then, it would be.
- 18/08/2010 03:22:23 PM
1376 Views
and why did it belong to Mexico to begin with? *NM*
- 17/08/2010 01:28:28 AM
477 Views
same way
it seems to be the way most people who own the Americas came to own it.
- 17/08/2010 01:46:49 AM
814 Views
it seems to be the way most people who own the Americas came to own it.
- 17/08/2010 01:46:49 AM
814 Views
my best friend is an illegal and is going back to mexico in a few months
- 16/08/2010 11:28:11 PM
990 Views
every issue is simpler when you don't have faces to represent it for you. *NM*
- 16/08/2010 11:29:38 PM
438 Views
We should seal our border and peform drone strikes on cartels.
- 17/08/2010 12:58:37 AM
816 Views
Re: We should seal our border and peform drone strikes on cartels.
- 17/08/2010 02:39:11 AM
882 Views
Re: We should seal our border and peform drone strikes on cartels.
- 17/08/2010 03:34:59 AM
1072 Views
I think maybe we've had enough of nation building for a while *NM*
- 17/08/2010 02:45:22 AM
403 Views
