Active Users:382 Time:16/06/2025 09:19:18 PM
In this particular case I don't disagree with you. SilverWarder Send a noteboard - 11/01/2011 09:28:13 PM
I'm just choosing not to 'go there'.

I agree men and women are different and I wish society would stop trying to masquerade that they aren't. It's annoying.

I had a discussion not too long ago about male/female adrenal responses and how that might affect jobs.

The outshoot of it was that, if it should be relevent to a job, measure the appropriate desired adrenal response needed for the job and then test applicants based on that adrenal response.

Some would cry - "That might exclude some people!"

Yes - yes it would. But it would exclude them based on a needed characteristic of the job - not based on their gender.

(Note that Male and Female adrenal responses are DIFFERENT but one is not 'better' then the other - Men have faster adrenal responses - much faster, but women have adrenal responses that are much longer - essentially 'sprinters' vs. 'long distance runners' if you will.)

There are plenty of other differences too - all part of our physiological variances but the key thing to keep in mind is that there are still and always exceptions. While the average man has more upper body strength than the average woman, there are exceptional women who are stronger than average and even above average men (although not exceptional men - the physiology just isn't there for that). Those realities mean that we need to base jobs that require strength as part of it on actual job needs so that if a strong woman applies and makes the grade she has the same chances as a man, is treated the same, paid the same etc.

We also need to watch for people abusing those standards to intentionally exclude people although caution is needed there too. Sometimes the standards need to be exceedingly high for practical purposes. Our local Fire Department has over 400 applicants for every opening - as such the standards they set, both physical and for training/expertise are amazingly high. They exclude almost everyone - of either gender - just to get the applicants down to a manageable number. That's not discrimination - it's setting the standards high to winnow down the applicant pool to only the absolute best. Lives are on the line and the applicant pool is huge. They can fully afford to be picky and should be as otherwise people may die.

In fairness to them all the standards that I've ever heard about do directly apply to the job.

Fairness, ethics and commonsense are all needed. Given our current political environment, there just isn't enough of any of those to go around.
May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk.

Old Egyptian Blessing
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Looks like the feminist movement wasn't as successful as it appears - 11/01/2011 06:21:01 PM 2225 Views
I think you're extrapolating a bit too much - 11/01/2011 06:45:38 PM 1305 Views
I don't trust the figures. - 11/01/2011 06:50:24 PM 1329 Views
While I don't 100% agree with the article, some feminists annoy me no end. - 11/01/2011 06:47:03 PM 1333 Views
My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career - 11/01/2011 06:52:11 PM 1314 Views
Re: My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career - 12/01/2011 01:36:14 AM 1317 Views
Yeah, got one like that, too. - 12/01/2011 02:17:17 AM 1318 Views
yeah prett much anything gross that isn't in a diaper is my job - 12/01/2011 05:12:11 AM 1256 Views
It's not just that choice though. - 11/01/2011 07:12:48 PM 1377 Views
It feels more hypocritical coming from feminists than "traditionalists". *NM* - 11/01/2011 07:17:24 PM 723 Views
For you maybe. - 11/01/2011 07:27:52 PM 1311 Views
there is definitely some SAHM snobbery - 11/01/2011 08:43:21 PM 1283 Views
Well. - 11/01/2011 09:34:42 PM 1338 Views
I agree. I would also like to add, if I may... - 12/01/2011 01:27:59 AM 1320 Views
all 25 of them? - 12/01/2011 05:14:56 AM 1271 Views
Pffft, look it up a bit. You might find info on the national propaganda radio (NPR) site. - 12/01/2011 12:47:33 PM 1321 Views
It's a difficult dynamic even under the best of circumstances, when both partners have chosen it. - 12/01/2011 02:25:20 PM 1168 Views
I agree, it's very difficult. - 12/01/2011 03:14:59 PM 1197 Views
it is nuanced - 12/01/2011 03:06:39 PM 1240 Views
Re: it is nuanced - 12/01/2011 04:58:36 PM 1247 Views
You are spot on. As usual. About everything. *NM* - 12/01/2011 01:42:18 AM 761 Views
- 12/01/2011 02:25:59 PM 1230 Views
I have to admit that this bothers me. - 11/01/2011 07:33:09 PM 1343 Views
I don't expect people to understand my choice necessarily. - 11/01/2011 09:36:52 PM 1345 Views
In addition... - 12/01/2011 05:39:25 PM 1206 Views
I guess you think the same of me then. - 11/01/2011 09:48:31 PM 1201 Views
Another one? - 12/01/2011 06:01:43 AM 1233 Views
Re: Another one? - 12/01/2011 12:33:58 PM 1260 Views
~never mind~ *NM* *NM* - 12/01/2011 04:42:47 PM 824 Views
I'm going to answer you anyway. - 12/01/2011 04:54:18 PM 1321 Views
not to mention - 12/01/2011 05:11:42 PM 1282 Views
In addition - 12/01/2011 05:23:25 PM 1216 Views
you don't want kids? - 12/01/2011 05:46:25 PM 1194 Views
bleck - 12/01/2011 11:14:25 PM 1222 Views
again not the vibe I get from you - 12/01/2011 11:38:26 PM 1195 Views
Hehe. - 13/01/2011 12:15:06 AM 1244 Views
Not selfish. - 13/01/2011 02:45:43 AM 1239 Views
You don't have to be a doctor to contribute to the world - 12/01/2011 05:27:26 PM 1284 Views
Poor Aeryn - 12/01/2011 05:29:47 PM 1209 Views
I replied before she edited - 12/01/2011 05:41:53 PM 1155 Views
Am I at least absolved from having to respond? - 15/01/2011 06:11:27 AM 1254 Views
Certainly. *NM* - 15/01/2011 09:40:09 AM 759 Views
The primary issue... - 12/01/2011 05:52:42 PM 1183 Views
*NM* - 12/01/2011 05:54:29 PM 687 Views
What Rebekah said... - 15/01/2011 07:55:34 PM 1188 Views
Me too! - 11/01/2011 09:43:57 PM 1277 Views
Re: Me too! - 12/01/2011 01:23:39 AM 1277 Views
I have a fiancee like that. - 12/01/2011 02:14:53 AM 1198 Views
I feel so fortunate to be a stay at home mom. - 12/01/2011 11:32:37 PM 1177 Views
My commentary on the whys and wherefores of this stuff would be way too politically incorrect - 11/01/2011 07:56:24 PM 1352 Views
I think all of that makes sense - 11/01/2011 08:36:39 PM 1253 Views
In this particular case I don't disagree with you. - 11/01/2011 09:28:13 PM 1179 Views
I'm not sure why either sex should surpass the other in math. - 12/01/2011 02:34:09 AM 1161 Views
men have more physical strength period - 12/01/2011 05:30:14 AM 1183 Views
There's a lot more to running (especially marathons) then leg strength. - 12/01/2011 05:41:11 AM 1197 Views
When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math - 12/01/2011 03:47:53 PM 1235 Views
Re: When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math - 12/01/2011 04:32:38 PM 1133 Views
Re: When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math - 12/01/2011 04:41:42 PM 1217 Views
Both, really; the latter is a consequence of the former. - 12/01/2011 05:21:28 PM 1116 Views
I'm trying to understand your position - 12/01/2011 05:28:43 PM 1182 Views
try string theory, it makes more sense than Joel logic - 12/01/2011 05:57:27 PM 1118 Views
Now you've got it. - 12/01/2011 06:40:50 PM 1270 Views
Okay, that's fair. *NM* - 12/01/2011 06:42:30 PM 675 Views
Glad we were able to reach an understanding. - 13/01/2011 10:02:47 PM 1167 Views
Re: I'm trying to understand your position - 13/01/2011 08:12:05 PM 1229 Views
we know the brain of women works differently then the brains of men - 12/01/2011 05:40:15 PM 1231 Views
What evidence I'm aware of seems inconclusive. - 12/01/2011 06:46:50 PM 1076 Views
here is some evdience to argue that it is not society but biology - 13/01/2011 08:43:43 PM 1223 Views
I think you did like I always do and forgot to give us a way to click your link. - 13/01/2011 09:56:52 PM 1220 Views
oops - 13/01/2011 10:07:55 PM 1239 Views
Seems like that's an argument for both views, in a way. - 13/01/2011 11:14:11 PM 1136 Views
You can use anything to prove what you want if you are willing to spin it hard enough - 14/01/2011 02:57:29 PM 1362 Views
I used YOUR article to "prove" what it says outright. - 15/01/2011 05:35:27 PM 1321 Views
I would also like to say this: - 11/01/2011 09:33:23 PM 1200 Views
Of course - 12/01/2011 01:47:14 AM 1227 Views
Re: Of course - 12/01/2011 04:57:11 PM 1226 Views
"Night" is also almost invariably feminine, in my experience. - 12/01/2011 07:58:12 PM 1242 Views
Re: "Night" is also almost invariably feminine, in my experience. - 12/01/2011 08:15:59 PM 1238 Views
It's true for Arabic and hence, one suspects, Hebrew. - 13/01/2011 07:43:21 PM 1142 Views
I'm glad YOU think it's fun... - 13/01/2011 10:05:07 PM 1207 Views
Re: I would also like to say this: - 12/01/2011 09:15:28 AM 1233 Views
Re: I would also like to say this: - 12/01/2011 12:27:14 PM 1211 Views
No - 12/01/2011 12:28:48 PM 1124 Views
Re: No - 12/01/2011 12:35:56 PM 1088 Views
Re: No - 12/01/2011 12:37:33 PM 1217 Views
Re: No - 12/01/2011 12:43:36 PM 1205 Views
Re: No - 12/01/2011 12:47:56 PM 1252 Views
Since this has become too complicated - 12/01/2011 12:54:54 PM 1235 Views
Re: Since this has become too complicated - 12/01/2011 12:56:20 PM 1232 Views
Re: Since this has become too complicated - 12/01/2011 04:55:50 PM 1159 Views
The two are used as different psychological concepts. - 12/01/2011 02:24:58 PM 1186 Views
Again, used incorrectly. - 12/01/2011 03:34:22 PM 1162 Views
Re: Again, used incorrectly. - 12/01/2011 04:00:59 PM 1255 Views
Exactly. *NM* - 12/01/2011 04:53:03 PM 681 Views
It really doesn't surprise me - 12/01/2011 12:36:19 AM 1209 Views
Have you left a memo at the Feminist Movement's Office? - 12/01/2011 12:46:45 AM 1248 Views
Actually, the feminist movement was completely successful. - 12/01/2011 01:42:44 AM 1240 Views
Well put. *NM* - 12/01/2011 02:10:56 AM 677 Views
I was playing a bit but I agree that the feminist in the past accomplished a lot - 12/01/2011 05:34:04 AM 1228 Views
NOW is just a left-leaning PAC. - 12/01/2011 03:16:52 PM 1197 Views
Now if only others were so rational about it. - 17/01/2011 05:55:57 AM 2372 Views
Nevermind, Tom beat me to it. - 12/01/2011 01:54:07 AM 1168 Views
Mmm. I don't think you understand the feminist movement. You have been reading to many things - 12/01/2011 01:56:20 AM 1232 Views
I was refering to groups like NOW - 12/01/2011 05:40:46 AM 1182 Views
Gotcha. - 12/01/2011 11:53:29 PM 1162 Views
I was being a tad bit trollish with my title - 13/01/2011 01:47:30 AM 1135 Views
I'm not sure that follows, at all. - 12/01/2011 02:06:41 AM 1136 Views
they never mention their study methods - 12/01/2011 02:14:15 PM 1219 Views
Gosh, look what you started. - 12/01/2011 03:00:23 PM 1213 Views
somebody need to start something it is pretty dead around here *NM* - 12/01/2011 03:16:54 PM 700 Views
Seriously *NM* - 12/01/2011 09:56:56 PM 668 Views
I agree that it would be awesome to hang with my kid every day and not have to work. - 12/01/2011 11:33:25 PM 1249 Views
that part would be great - 12/01/2011 11:40:49 PM 1210 Views
I could do it every day. - 13/01/2011 12:52:56 AM 1140 Views
Me too... - 13/01/2011 02:45:49 PM 1263 Views
So here's the question. Why don't men have a "choice" to opt-out? - 15/01/2011 06:13:28 AM 1231 Views
They do. - 15/01/2011 09:42:29 AM 1162 Views
read further up the thread - 15/01/2011 10:49:08 AM 1255 Views
I really wish that were more socially acceptable. - 15/01/2011 07:58:57 PM 1256 Views
I feel I have that choice. - 16/01/2011 12:08:48 AM 1180 Views
They most certainly do. - 18/01/2011 04:39:09 PM 1307 Views
This sounds awful to me. - 13/01/2011 04:27:08 AM 1212 Views
Re: This sounds awful to me. - 14/01/2011 02:47:36 AM 1217 Views
Yikes. - 14/01/2011 11:13:39 PM 1205 Views

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