In this particular case I don't disagree with you.
SilverWarder Send a noteboard - 11/01/2011 09:28:13 PM
I'm just choosing not to 'go there'.
I agree men and women are different and I wish society would stop trying to masquerade that they aren't. It's annoying.
I had a discussion not too long ago about male/female adrenal responses and how that might affect jobs.
The outshoot of it was that, if it should be relevent to a job, measure the appropriate desired adrenal response needed for the job and then test applicants based on that adrenal response.
Some would cry - "That might exclude some people!"
Yes - yes it would. But it would exclude them based on a needed characteristic of the job - not based on their gender.
(Note that Male and Female adrenal responses are DIFFERENT but one is not 'better' then the other - Men have faster adrenal responses - much faster, but women have adrenal responses that are much longer - essentially 'sprinters' vs. 'long distance runners' if you will.)
There are plenty of other differences too - all part of our physiological variances but the key thing to keep in mind is that there are still and always exceptions. While the average man has more upper body strength than the average woman, there are exceptional women who are stronger than average and even above average men (although not exceptional men - the physiology just isn't there for that). Those realities mean that we need to base jobs that require strength as part of it on actual job needs so that if a strong woman applies and makes the grade she has the same chances as a man, is treated the same, paid the same etc.
We also need to watch for people abusing those standards to intentionally exclude people although caution is needed there too. Sometimes the standards need to be exceedingly high for practical purposes. Our local Fire Department has over 400 applicants for every opening - as such the standards they set, both physical and for training/expertise are amazingly high. They exclude almost everyone - of either gender - just to get the applicants down to a manageable number. That's not discrimination - it's setting the standards high to winnow down the applicant pool to only the absolute best. Lives are on the line and the applicant pool is huge. They can fully afford to be picky and should be as otherwise people may die.
In fairness to them all the standards that I've ever heard about do directly apply to the job.
Fairness, ethics and commonsense are all needed. Given our current political environment, there just isn't enough of any of those to go around.
I agree men and women are different and I wish society would stop trying to masquerade that they aren't. It's annoying.
I had a discussion not too long ago about male/female adrenal responses and how that might affect jobs.
The outshoot of it was that, if it should be relevent to a job, measure the appropriate desired adrenal response needed for the job and then test applicants based on that adrenal response.
Some would cry - "That might exclude some people!"
Yes - yes it would. But it would exclude them based on a needed characteristic of the job - not based on their gender.
(Note that Male and Female adrenal responses are DIFFERENT but one is not 'better' then the other - Men have faster adrenal responses - much faster, but women have adrenal responses that are much longer - essentially 'sprinters' vs. 'long distance runners' if you will.)
There are plenty of other differences too - all part of our physiological variances but the key thing to keep in mind is that there are still and always exceptions. While the average man has more upper body strength than the average woman, there are exceptional women who are stronger than average and even above average men (although not exceptional men - the physiology just isn't there for that). Those realities mean that we need to base jobs that require strength as part of it on actual job needs so that if a strong woman applies and makes the grade she has the same chances as a man, is treated the same, paid the same etc.
We also need to watch for people abusing those standards to intentionally exclude people although caution is needed there too. Sometimes the standards need to be exceedingly high for practical purposes. Our local Fire Department has over 400 applicants for every opening - as such the standards they set, both physical and for training/expertise are amazingly high. They exclude almost everyone - of either gender - just to get the applicants down to a manageable number. That's not discrimination - it's setting the standards high to winnow down the applicant pool to only the absolute best. Lives are on the line and the applicant pool is huge. They can fully afford to be picky and should be as otherwise people may die.
In fairness to them all the standards that I've ever heard about do directly apply to the job.
Fairness, ethics and commonsense are all needed. Given our current political environment, there just isn't enough of any of those to go around.
May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk.
Old Egyptian Blessing
Old Egyptian Blessing
Looks like the feminist movement wasn't as successful as it appears
- 11/01/2011 06:21:01 PM
2342 Views
I think you're extrapolating a bit too much
- 11/01/2011 06:45:38 PM
1404 Views
The aricle does mention that women feel pressured to work when they did not want to
- 11/01/2011 06:48:47 PM
1410 Views
I don't trust the figures.
- 11/01/2011 06:50:24 PM
1413 Views
One assumes the latter, to the extent that "same job with same experience" can be defined. *NM*
- 12/01/2011 07:10:13 PM
742 Views
While I don't 100% agree with the article, some feminists annoy me no end.
- 11/01/2011 06:47:03 PM
1463 Views
My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career
- 11/01/2011 06:52:11 PM
1414 Views
Re: My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career
- 11/01/2011 09:35:43 PM
1404 Views
Re: My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career
- 12/01/2011 01:36:14 AM
1403 Views
It's not just that choice though.
- 11/01/2011 07:12:48 PM
1486 Views
It feels more hypocritical coming from feminists than "traditionalists". *NM*
- 11/01/2011 07:17:24 PM
777 Views
For you maybe.
- 11/01/2011 07:27:52 PM
1400 Views
I agree. I would also like to add, if I may...
- 12/01/2011 01:27:59 AM
1415 Views
- 12/01/2011 01:27:59 AM
1415 Views
all 25 of them?
- 12/01/2011 05:14:56 AM
1370 Views
Pffft, look it up a bit. You might find info on the national propaganda radio (NPR) site.
- 12/01/2011 12:47:33 PM
1422 Views
- 12/01/2011 12:47:33 PM
1422 Views
It's a difficult dynamic even under the best of circumstances, when both partners have chosen it.
- 12/01/2011 02:25:20 PM
1270 Views
I have to admit that this bothers me.
- 11/01/2011 07:33:09 PM
1458 Views
I guess you think the same of me then.
- 11/01/2011 09:48:31 PM
1289 Views
- 11/01/2011 09:48:31 PM
1289 Views
Another one?
- 12/01/2011 06:01:43 AM
1331 Views
- 12/01/2011 06:01:43 AM
1331 Views
Re: Another one?
- 12/01/2011 12:33:58 PM
1344 Views
- 12/01/2011 12:33:58 PM
1344 Views
~never mind~ *NM* *NM*
- 12/01/2011 04:42:47 PM
883 Views
I'm going to answer you anyway.
- 12/01/2011 04:54:18 PM
1415 Views
- 12/01/2011 04:54:18 PM
1415 Views
not to mention
- 12/01/2011 05:11:42 PM
1379 Views
you don't want kids?
- 12/01/2011 05:46:25 PM
1303 Views
bleck
- 12/01/2011 11:14:25 PM
1323 Views
- 12/01/2011 11:14:25 PM
1323 Views
You don't have to be a doctor to contribute to the world
- 12/01/2011 05:27:26 PM
1379 Views
Poor Aeryn
- 12/01/2011 05:29:47 PM
1299 Views
I replied before she edited
- 12/01/2011 05:41:53 PM
1253 Views
The primary issue...
- 12/01/2011 05:52:42 PM
1303 Views
Agreed; ironically, that first line applies to this thread and mine with the parenting article.
- 13/01/2011 10:00:28 PM
1433 Views
It has been a long, long time since I have seen a woman getting looked down on for staying at home.
- 12/01/2011 01:48:42 AM
1230 Views
My commentary on the whys and wherefores of this stuff would be way too politically incorrect
- 11/01/2011 07:56:24 PM
1460 Views
I think all of that makes sense
- 11/01/2011 08:36:39 PM
1340 Views
In this particular case I don't disagree with you.
- 11/01/2011 09:28:13 PM
1276 Views
I'm not sure why either sex should surpass the other in math.
- 12/01/2011 02:34:09 AM
1256 Views
men have more physical strength period
- 12/01/2011 05:30:14 AM
1293 Views
There's a lot more to running (especially marathons) then leg strength.
- 12/01/2011 05:41:11 AM
1315 Views
how much time the experts spend being wrong doesn't make them less wrong
- 12/01/2011 03:16:10 PM
1264 Views
How much more time they've spent studying it before drawing conclusions makes a big difference.
- 12/01/2011 05:42:26 PM
1276 Views
your right it is just a coincidence that their results always matches their politics
- 12/01/2011 05:56:03 PM
1338 Views
There's definitely such a thing as a self fulfilling prophecy.
- 12/01/2011 07:00:23 PM
1283 Views
so you would trust them if they only admitted conseratives?
- 12/01/2011 09:51:00 PM
1307 Views
Admitted? No, but they'll take anyone with the grades.
- 13/01/2011 09:47:42 PM
1309 Views
Every study I have seen shows most schools have few to no non-leberal proffesors
- 13/01/2011 10:07:08 PM
1240 Views
Every study I've ever seen shows that math and science fields have few to no women.
- 13/01/2011 10:42:46 PM
1327 Views
not when we know men are better at math thewpmen are
- 13/01/2011 11:10:18 PM
1412 Views
- 13/01/2011 11:10:18 PM
1412 Views
Sigh... we know no such thing, and even if we did, it would be those biased liberals telling us.
- 13/01/2011 11:30:33 PM
1214 Views
When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math
- 12/01/2011 03:47:53 PM
1336 Views
Both, really; the latter is a consequence of the former.
- 12/01/2011 05:21:28 PM
1208 Views
I'm trying to understand your position
- 12/01/2011 05:28:43 PM
1296 Views
Now you've got it.
- 12/01/2011 06:40:50 PM
1376 Views
we know the brain of women works differently then the brains of men
- 12/01/2011 05:40:15 PM
1333 Views
What evidence I'm aware of seems inconclusive.
- 12/01/2011 06:46:50 PM
1163 Views
There are theories but of course they are unprovable
- 12/01/2011 10:50:08 PM
1276 Views
That's a logical rationale, and might even be accurate, but in this case I want hard evidence.
- 13/01/2011 09:03:32 PM
1223 Views
I think if you look you find you believe all sorts of things that can't be proven
- 13/01/2011 10:03:54 PM
1289 Views
here is some evdience to argue that it is not society but biology
- 13/01/2011 08:43:43 PM
1331 Views
I think you did like I always do and forgot to give us a way to click your link.
- 13/01/2011 09:56:52 PM
1329 Views
- 13/01/2011 09:56:52 PM
1329 Views
oops
- 13/01/2011 10:07:55 PM
1341 Views
Seems like that's an argument for both views, in a way.
- 13/01/2011 11:14:11 PM
1228 Views
You can use anything to prove what you want if you are willing to spin it hard enough
- 14/01/2011 02:57:29 PM
1502 Views
I would also like to say this:
- 11/01/2011 09:33:23 PM
1297 Views
Of course
- 12/01/2011 01:47:14 AM
1334 Views
"Night" is also almost invariably feminine, in my experience.
- 12/01/2011 07:58:12 PM
1343 Views
Re: "Night" is also almost invariably feminine, in my experience.
- 12/01/2011 08:15:59 PM
1334 Views
I'm glad YOU think it's fun...
- 13/01/2011 10:05:07 PM
1302 Views
I seem to remember reading about genders in Norwegian once, but I forget now...
- 13/01/2011 10:11:24 PM
1336 Views
Re: I would also like to say this:
- 12/01/2011 09:15:28 AM
1344 Views
Re: I would also like to say this:
- 12/01/2011 12:27:14 PM
1323 Views
No
- 12/01/2011 12:28:48 PM
1225 Views
Re: No
- 12/01/2011 12:35:56 PM
1193 Views
Re: No
- 12/01/2011 12:37:33 PM
1308 Views
Re: No
- 12/01/2011 12:43:36 PM
1302 Views
Re: No
- 12/01/2011 12:47:56 PM
1338 Views
Since this has become too complicated
- 12/01/2011 12:54:54 PM
1343 Views
The two are used as different psychological concepts.
- 12/01/2011 02:24:58 PM
1282 Views
Have you left a memo at the Feminist Movement's Office?
- 12/01/2011 12:46:45 AM
1342 Views
what the point? Like good liberals they only believe science that agrees with them
*NM*
- 12/01/2011 05:31:09 AM
670 Views
*NM*
- 12/01/2011 05:31:09 AM
670 Views
Actually, the feminist movement was completely successful.
- 12/01/2011 01:42:44 AM
1333 Views
I was playing a bit but I agree that the feminist in the past accomplished a lot
- 12/01/2011 05:34:04 AM
1338 Views
NOW is just a left-leaning PAC.
- 12/01/2011 03:16:52 PM
1295 Views
I would argue the women's movement and the feminist movement are not the same thing
- 12/01/2011 03:53:19 PM
1296 Views
Mmm. I don't think you understand the feminist movement. You have been reading to many things
- 12/01/2011 01:56:20 AM
1339 Views
I was refering to groups like NOW
- 12/01/2011 05:40:46 AM
1284 Views
Gosh, look what you started.
- 12/01/2011 03:00:23 PM
1318 Views
- 12/01/2011 03:00:23 PM
1318 Views
somebody need to start something it is pretty dead around here *NM*
- 12/01/2011 03:16:54 PM
759 Views
I agree that it would be awesome to hang with my kid every day and not have to work.
- 12/01/2011 11:33:25 PM
1357 Views
that part would be great
- 12/01/2011 11:40:49 PM
1313 Views
I could do it every day.
- 13/01/2011 12:52:56 AM
1249 Views
So here's the question. Why don't men have a "choice" to opt-out?
- 15/01/2011 06:13:28 AM
1318 Views
This sounds awful to me.
- 13/01/2011 04:27:08 AM
1312 Views
- 13/01/2011 04:27:08 AM
1312 Views
I should have twigged on to that sooner. I would have if I had read more posts before answering.
- 13/01/2011 02:50:20 AM
1309 Views

*NM*