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How much more time they've spent studying it before drawing conclusions makes a big difference. Joel Send a noteboard - 12/01/2011 05:42:26 PM
You might try it some time.... ;)
The main reason they are wrong is most of them are trying to use science to prove their personal politics and the bend science to fit.

Ah, I can always count on you to be unintentionally ironic. ;) People spend decades on objective scientific studies and you dismiss them because the resultant conclusions are "PC". So they're wrong because they're just perverting science for political reasons.
The IQ test must be invalid because it shows some races are smarter then other races. They can argue the women make as good distance runners as men but they can't argue that women actually win any major distance running events.

There is more to sports then strength so it should be easy for you to point out the sport where both sexes compete and women do as well at the professional level. NASCAR is the only one I can think of but I am sure you can do better.

I don't know why men are better at math but if you won't accept the simple fact that men do better on math test then I really don't think it is possible to convince you since facts seem to be ruled out. I would assume the argument that it is a field dominated by men is irrelevant as well? Doesn’t mean a woman can not be very good at math but it does mean that attempts to get woman to parity in the field may be misguided. If you have to handicap them then it is hard to argue they are equal.

I accept that men tend to do better on math tests; what I don't (necessarily) accept is that it's the result of inherent sex differences rather than conditioning. It may be, I honestly don't know, but you'll have to give me more than your unshakable faith in male superiority and devotion to Bobby Riggs. ;)
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Looks like the feminist movement wasn't as successful as it appears random thoughts - 11/01/2011 06:21:01 PM 2342 Views
I think you're extrapolating a bit too much beetnemesis - 11/01/2011 06:45:38 PM 1404 Views
The aricle does mention that women feel pressured to work when they did not want to random thoughts - 11/01/2011 06:48:47 PM 1410 Views
I don't trust the figures. Rebekah - 11/01/2011 06:50:24 PM 1414 Views
One assumes the latter, to the extent that "same job with same experience" can be defined. *NM* Legolas - 12/01/2011 07:10:13 PM 744 Views
One might assume that, but it's not necessarily so. Rebekah - 12/01/2011 08:58:14 PM 1380 Views
While I don't 100% agree with the article, some feminists annoy me no end. Rebekah - 11/01/2011 06:47:03 PM 1463 Views
My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career random thoughts - 11/01/2011 06:52:11 PM 1414 Views
Re: My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career Rebekah - 11/01/2011 09:35:43 PM 1405 Views
Re: My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career Avendesora - 12/01/2011 01:36:14 AM 1403 Views
Yeah, got one like that, too. Joel - 12/01/2011 02:17:17 AM 1420 Views
yeah prett much anything gross that isn't in a diaper is my job random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:12:11 AM 1351 Views
It's not just that choice though. Sareitha Sedai - 11/01/2011 07:12:48 PM 1486 Views
It feels more hypocritical coming from feminists than "traditionalists". *NM* Rebekah - 11/01/2011 07:17:24 PM 779 Views
For you maybe. Sareitha Sedai - 11/01/2011 07:27:52 PM 1401 Views
there is definitely some SAHM snobbery random thoughts - 11/01/2011 08:43:21 PM 1398 Views
Well. Rebekah - 11/01/2011 09:34:42 PM 1434 Views
I agree. I would also like to add, if I may... Avendesora - 12/01/2011 01:27:59 AM 1416 Views
all 25 of them? random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:14:56 AM 1371 Views
Pffft, look it up a bit. You might find info on the national propaganda radio (NPR) site. Avendesora - 12/01/2011 12:47:33 PM 1424 Views
It's a difficult dynamic even under the best of circumstances, when both partners have chosen it. Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 02:25:20 PM 1271 Views
I agree, it's very difficult. Avendesora - 12/01/2011 03:14:59 PM 1303 Views
it is nuanced random thoughts - 12/01/2011 03:06:39 PM 1342 Views
Re: it is nuanced Avendesora - 12/01/2011 04:58:36 PM 1340 Views
You are spot on. As usual. About everything. *NM* Tashmere - 12/01/2011 01:42:18 AM 825 Views
Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 02:25:59 PM 1333 Views
I have to admit that this bothers me. rebelaessedai - 11/01/2011 07:33:09 PM 1458 Views
I don't expect people to understand my choice necessarily. Rebekah - 11/01/2011 09:36:52 PM 1442 Views
In addition... Jacob - 12/01/2011 05:39:25 PM 1311 Views
I guess you think the same of me then. Clover - 11/01/2011 09:48:31 PM 1291 Views
Another one? rebelaessedai - 12/01/2011 06:01:43 AM 1331 Views
Re: Another one? Rebekah - 12/01/2011 12:33:58 PM 1344 Views
~never mind~ *NM* *NM* Aeryn - 12/01/2011 04:42:47 PM 884 Views
I'm going to answer you anyway. Rebekah - 12/01/2011 04:54:18 PM 1416 Views
not to mention nossy - 12/01/2011 05:11:42 PM 1379 Views
In addition Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 05:23:25 PM 1308 Views
you don't want kids? random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:46:25 PM 1303 Views
bleck nossy - 12/01/2011 11:14:25 PM 1324 Views
again not the vibe I get from you random thoughts - 12/01/2011 11:38:26 PM 1296 Views
Hehe. Clover - 13/01/2011 12:15:06 AM 1340 Views
Not selfish. Tashmere - 13/01/2011 02:45:43 AM 1338 Views
You don't have to be a doctor to contribute to the world random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:27:26 PM 1379 Views
Poor Aeryn Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 05:29:47 PM 1299 Views
I replied before she edited random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:41:53 PM 1253 Views
Am I at least absolved from having to respond? Aeryn - 15/01/2011 06:11:27 AM 1363 Views
Certainly. *NM* Rebekah - 15/01/2011 09:40:09 AM 818 Views
The primary issue... Jacob - 12/01/2011 05:52:42 PM 1304 Views
*NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 05:54:29 PM 746 Views
Agreed; ironically, that first line applies to this thread and mine with the parenting article. Joel - 13/01/2011 10:00:28 PM 1434 Views
What Rebekah said... Clover - 15/01/2011 07:55:34 PM 1309 Views
Me too! Clover - 11/01/2011 09:43:57 PM 1378 Views
Re: Me too! Darth_Katie - 12/01/2011 01:23:39 AM 1390 Views
It has been a long, long time since I have seen a woman getting looked down on for staying at home. Tashmere - 12/01/2011 01:48:42 AM 1231 Views
I have a fiancee like that. Joel - 12/01/2011 02:14:53 AM 1295 Views
I feel so fortunate to be a stay at home mom. Beqi - 12/01/2011 11:32:37 PM 1291 Views
My commentary on the whys and wherefores of this stuff would be way too politically incorrect SilverWarder - 11/01/2011 07:56:24 PM 1460 Views
I think all of that makes sense random thoughts - 11/01/2011 08:36:39 PM 1341 Views
In this particular case I don't disagree with you. SilverWarder - 11/01/2011 09:28:13 PM 1276 Views
I'm not sure why either sex should surpass the other in math. Joel - 12/01/2011 02:34:09 AM 1257 Views
men have more physical strength period random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:30:14 AM 1294 Views
There's a lot more to running (especially marathons) then leg strength. Joel - 12/01/2011 05:41:11 AM 1315 Views
how much time the experts spend being wrong doesn't make them less wrong random thoughts - 12/01/2011 03:16:10 PM 1264 Views
How much more time they've spent studying it before drawing conclusions makes a big difference. Joel - 12/01/2011 05:42:26 PM 1277 Views
your right it is just a coincidence that their results always matches their politics random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:56:03 PM 1338 Views
There's definitely such a thing as a self fulfilling prophecy. Joel - 12/01/2011 07:00:23 PM 1283 Views
so you would trust them if they only admitted conseratives? random thoughts - 12/01/2011 09:51:00 PM 1308 Views
Admitted? No, but they'll take anyone with the grades. Joel - 13/01/2011 09:47:42 PM 1310 Views
Every study I have seen shows most schools have few to no non-leberal proffesors random thoughts - 13/01/2011 10:07:08 PM 1240 Views
Every study I've ever seen shows that math and science fields have few to no women. Joel - 13/01/2011 10:42:46 PM 1328 Views
not when we know men are better at math thewpmen are random thoughts - 13/01/2011 11:10:18 PM 1413 Views
Sigh... we know no such thing, and even if we did, it would be those biased liberals telling us. Joel - 13/01/2011 11:30:33 PM 1214 Views
When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 03:47:53 PM 1336 Views
Re: When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math Macharius - 12/01/2011 04:32:38 PM 1216 Views
Re: When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 04:41:42 PM 1317 Views
Both, really; the latter is a consequence of the former. Joel - 12/01/2011 05:21:28 PM 1208 Views
I'm trying to understand your position Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 05:28:43 PM 1296 Views
try string theory, it makes more sense than Joel logic random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:57:27 PM 1212 Views
Now you've got it. Joel - 12/01/2011 06:40:50 PM 1376 Views
Okay, that's fair. *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/01/2011 06:42:30 PM 713 Views
Glad we were able to reach an understanding. Joel - 13/01/2011 10:02:47 PM 1258 Views
Re: I'm trying to understand your position Camilla - 13/01/2011 08:12:05 PM 1313 Views
we know the brain of women works differently then the brains of men random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:40:15 PM 1334 Views
What evidence I'm aware of seems inconclusive. Joel - 12/01/2011 06:46:50 PM 1163 Views
There are theories but of course they are unprovable random thoughts - 12/01/2011 10:50:08 PM 1277 Views
That's a logical rationale, and might even be accurate, but in this case I want hard evidence. Joel - 13/01/2011 09:03:32 PM 1223 Views
I think if you look you find you believe all sorts of things that can't be proven random thoughts - 13/01/2011 10:03:54 PM 1289 Views
I have, and have frequently argued everyone holds such beliefs. Joel - 13/01/2011 10:33:01 PM 1156 Views
here is some evdience to argue that it is not society but biology random thoughts - 13/01/2011 08:43:43 PM 1331 Views
I think you did like I always do and forgot to give us a way to click your link. Joel - 13/01/2011 09:56:52 PM 1330 Views
oops random thoughts - 13/01/2011 10:07:55 PM 1341 Views
Seems like that's an argument for both views, in a way. Joel - 13/01/2011 11:14:11 PM 1229 Views
You can use anything to prove what you want if you are willing to spin it hard enough random thoughts - 14/01/2011 02:57:29 PM 1502 Views
I used YOUR article to "prove" what it says outright. Joel - 15/01/2011 05:35:27 PM 1426 Views
I would also like to say this: Rebekah - 11/01/2011 09:33:23 PM 1298 Views
Of course Tom - 12/01/2011 01:47:14 AM 1334 Views
Re: Of course Rebekah - 12/01/2011 04:57:11 PM 1321 Views
"Night" is also almost invariably feminine, in my experience. Legolas - 12/01/2011 07:58:12 PM 1344 Views
Re: "Night" is also almost invariably feminine, in my experience. Camilla - 12/01/2011 08:15:59 PM 1334 Views
It's true for Arabic and hence, one suspects, Hebrew. Legolas - 13/01/2011 07:43:21 PM 1241 Views
I'm glad YOU think it's fun... Joel - 13/01/2011 10:05:07 PM 1302 Views
I seem to remember reading about genders in Norwegian once, but I forget now... Legolas - 13/01/2011 10:11:24 PM 1336 Views
I think you may be right, but I'll no more after next week. Joel - 14/01/2011 12:20:54 AM 1432 Views
Re: I would also like to say this: Camilla - 12/01/2011 09:15:28 AM 1344 Views
Re: I would also like to say this: Rebekah - 12/01/2011 12:27:14 PM 1324 Views
No Camilla - 12/01/2011 12:28:48 PM 1225 Views
Re: No Rebekah - 12/01/2011 12:35:56 PM 1195 Views
Re: No Camilla - 12/01/2011 12:37:33 PM 1308 Views
Re: No Rebekah - 12/01/2011 12:43:36 PM 1303 Views
Re: No Camilla - 12/01/2011 12:47:56 PM 1338 Views
Since this has become too complicated Rebekah - 12/01/2011 12:54:54 PM 1344 Views
Re: Since this has become too complicated Camilla - 12/01/2011 12:56:20 PM 1357 Views
Re: Since this has become too complicated Rebekah - 12/01/2011 04:55:50 PM 1264 Views
The two are used as different psychological concepts. Darth_Katie - 12/01/2011 02:24:58 PM 1284 Views
Again, used incorrectly. Tom - 12/01/2011 03:34:22 PM 1267 Views
Re: Again, used incorrectly. Camilla - 12/01/2011 04:00:59 PM 1344 Views
Exactly. *NM* Rebekah - 12/01/2011 04:53:03 PM 741 Views
It really doesn't surprise me Beqi - 12/01/2011 12:36:19 AM 1305 Views
Have you left a memo at the Feminist Movement's Office? Dannymac - 12/01/2011 12:46:45 AM 1343 Views
what the point? Like good liberals they only believe science that agrees with them *NM* random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:31:09 AM 670 Views
Actually, the feminist movement was completely successful. Tom - 12/01/2011 01:42:44 AM 1334 Views
Well put. *NM* everynametaken - 12/01/2011 02:10:56 AM 720 Views
I was playing a bit but I agree that the feminist in the past accomplished a lot random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:34:04 AM 1338 Views
NOW is just a left-leaning PAC. Tom - 12/01/2011 03:16:52 PM 1297 Views
I would argue the women's movement and the feminist movement are not the same thing random thoughts - 12/01/2011 03:53:19 PM 1297 Views
Now if only others were so rational about it. SilverWarder - 17/01/2011 05:55:57 AM 2488 Views
Nevermind, Tom beat me to it. Avendesora - 12/01/2011 01:54:07 AM 1271 Views
Mmm. I don't think you understand the feminist movement. You have been reading to many things Tashmere - 12/01/2011 01:56:20 AM 1340 Views
I was refering to groups like NOW random thoughts - 12/01/2011 05:40:46 AM 1285 Views
Gotcha. Tashmere - 12/01/2011 11:53:29 PM 1248 Views
I was being a tad bit trollish with my title random thoughts - 13/01/2011 01:47:30 AM 1235 Views
I'm not sure that follows, at all. Joel - 12/01/2011 02:06:41 AM 1221 Views
they never mention their study methods Ava - 12/01/2011 02:14:15 PM 1307 Views
Gosh, look what you started. nossy - 12/01/2011 03:00:23 PM 1318 Views
somebody need to start something it is pretty dead around here *NM* random thoughts - 12/01/2011 03:16:54 PM 759 Views
Seriously *NM* beetnemesis - 12/01/2011 09:56:56 PM 728 Views
I agree that it would be awesome to hang with my kid every day and not have to work. TaskmasterJack - 12/01/2011 11:33:25 PM 1358 Views
that part would be great random thoughts - 12/01/2011 11:40:49 PM 1314 Views
I could do it every day. TaskmasterJack - 13/01/2011 12:52:56 AM 1249 Views
Me too... Jacob - 13/01/2011 02:45:49 PM 1353 Views
So here's the question. Why don't men have a "choice" to opt-out? Aeryn - 15/01/2011 06:13:28 AM 1318 Views
They do. Rebekah - 15/01/2011 09:42:29 AM 1248 Views
read further up the thread random thoughts - 15/01/2011 10:49:08 AM 1372 Views
I really wish that were more socially acceptable. Clover - 15/01/2011 07:58:57 PM 1377 Views
I feel I have that choice. TaskmasterJack - 16/01/2011 12:08:48 AM 1308 Views
They most certainly do. Jacob - 18/01/2011 04:39:09 PM 1404 Views
This sounds awful to me. rebelaessedai - 13/01/2011 04:27:08 AM 1312 Views
Re: This sounds awful to me. TaskmasterJack - 14/01/2011 02:47:36 AM 1324 Views
Yikes. rebelaessedai - 14/01/2011 11:13:39 PM 1302 Views
I should have twigged on to that sooner. I would have if I had read more posts before answering. Tashmere - 13/01/2011 02:50:20 AM 1309 Views
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