Seems like that's an argument for both views, in a way.
Joel Send a noteboard - 13/01/2011 11:14:11 PM
Here is a study that shows significantly different spatial skills already appearing in infants. It doesn’t offer an explanation for why there is a difference but offers evidence that is hard to argue with short expanding the sampling size to rule out errors.
We shouldn't ignore evidence just because we don't like the implications. We also shouldn’t over read it, I wouldn’t discourage my daughter from being an engineer.
We shouldn't ignore evidence just because we don't like the implications. We also shouldn’t over read it, I wouldn’t discourage my daughter from being an engineer.
Which is a shame, 'cos I'd like to see the study, but it's also easily fixed.
Expanding samples to reduce error is always a good idea, which is one of the benefits of multiple studies, but beyond a certain point you get marginal returns. *resists the urge to discuss FL exit polling in 2000 and 2004* 
1) We have a study that indicates infant boys, as a whole, tend to have better spatial reasoning than infant girls, while noting that doesn't preclude individual girls performing as well, just that it's more common in boys,
2) Overall, math achievement is roughly equal, because spatial reasoning is just one aspect of math ability,
3) "If girls think they don’t do well in a subject, they have a diminished interest in it". I'd say that applies to all students; people who expect to fail usually find a way to make it happen, regardless of their sex, and probably the number of boys who suck at cooking is similar to the number of girls who suck at math because of social sexual norms, but most importantly,
4) None of the preconditioning involved in that, either biological or social, is set in stone, and at the end of the day the success of any one child in any one area will have more to do with individual ability as well as the ability of educators and parents to stimulate interest and encourage performance than it has to do with either the subject or the students sex.
There appears to be a sex advantage IN ONE AREA, overall achievement is roughly equal, at least to a point, but girls tend to have less interest in math because they're expected to perform more poorly; nevertheless, most developmentally normal children can succeed in any field if what native ability they have is stimulated and encouraged. Perhaps that's the biggest factor in what IS "developmentally normal".
Thanks for the link, it was quite interesting.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Looks like the feminist movement wasn't as successful as it appears
- 11/01/2011 06:21:01 PM
2342 Views
I think you're extrapolating a bit too much
- 11/01/2011 06:45:38 PM
1404 Views
The aricle does mention that women feel pressured to work when they did not want to
- 11/01/2011 06:48:47 PM
1410 Views
I don't trust the figures.
- 11/01/2011 06:50:24 PM
1414 Views
One assumes the latter, to the extent that "same job with same experience" can be defined. *NM*
- 12/01/2011 07:10:13 PM
744 Views
While I don't 100% agree with the article, some feminists annoy me no end.
- 11/01/2011 06:47:03 PM
1464 Views
My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career
- 11/01/2011 06:52:11 PM
1415 Views
Re: My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career
- 11/01/2011 09:35:43 PM
1405 Views
Re: My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career
- 12/01/2011 01:36:14 AM
1403 Views
It's not just that choice though.
- 11/01/2011 07:12:48 PM
1486 Views
It feels more hypocritical coming from feminists than "traditionalists". *NM*
- 11/01/2011 07:17:24 PM
779 Views
For you maybe.
- 11/01/2011 07:27:52 PM
1401 Views
I agree. I would also like to add, if I may...
- 12/01/2011 01:27:59 AM
1416 Views
- 12/01/2011 01:27:59 AM
1416 Views
all 25 of them?
- 12/01/2011 05:14:56 AM
1372 Views
Pffft, look it up a bit. You might find info on the national propaganda radio (NPR) site.
- 12/01/2011 12:47:33 PM
1424 Views
- 12/01/2011 12:47:33 PM
1424 Views
It's a difficult dynamic even under the best of circumstances, when both partners have chosen it.
- 12/01/2011 02:25:20 PM
1271 Views
I have to admit that this bothers me.
- 11/01/2011 07:33:09 PM
1459 Views
I guess you think the same of me then.
- 11/01/2011 09:48:31 PM
1291 Views
- 11/01/2011 09:48:31 PM
1291 Views
Another one?
- 12/01/2011 06:01:43 AM
1331 Views
- 12/01/2011 06:01:43 AM
1331 Views
Re: Another one?
- 12/01/2011 12:33:58 PM
1345 Views
- 12/01/2011 12:33:58 PM
1345 Views
~never mind~ *NM* *NM*
- 12/01/2011 04:42:47 PM
884 Views
I'm going to answer you anyway.
- 12/01/2011 04:54:18 PM
1416 Views
- 12/01/2011 04:54:18 PM
1416 Views
not to mention
- 12/01/2011 05:11:42 PM
1380 Views
you don't want kids?
- 12/01/2011 05:46:25 PM
1303 Views
bleck
- 12/01/2011 11:14:25 PM
1324 Views
- 12/01/2011 11:14:25 PM
1324 Views
You don't have to be a doctor to contribute to the world
- 12/01/2011 05:27:26 PM
1379 Views
Poor Aeryn
- 12/01/2011 05:29:47 PM
1300 Views
I replied before she edited
- 12/01/2011 05:41:53 PM
1253 Views
The primary issue...
- 12/01/2011 05:52:42 PM
1304 Views
Agreed; ironically, that first line applies to this thread and mine with the parenting article.
- 13/01/2011 10:00:28 PM
1435 Views
It has been a long, long time since I have seen a woman getting looked down on for staying at home.
- 12/01/2011 01:48:42 AM
1231 Views
My commentary on the whys and wherefores of this stuff would be way too politically incorrect
- 11/01/2011 07:56:24 PM
1460 Views
I think all of that makes sense
- 11/01/2011 08:36:39 PM
1341 Views
I'm not sure why either sex should surpass the other in math.
- 12/01/2011 02:34:09 AM
1258 Views
men have more physical strength period
- 12/01/2011 05:30:14 AM
1294 Views
There's a lot more to running (especially marathons) then leg strength.
- 12/01/2011 05:41:11 AM
1315 Views
how much time the experts spend being wrong doesn't make them less wrong
- 12/01/2011 03:16:10 PM
1264 Views
How much more time they've spent studying it before drawing conclusions makes a big difference.
- 12/01/2011 05:42:26 PM
1277 Views
your right it is just a coincidence that their results always matches their politics
- 12/01/2011 05:56:03 PM
1339 Views
There's definitely such a thing as a self fulfilling prophecy.
- 12/01/2011 07:00:23 PM
1284 Views
so you would trust them if they only admitted conseratives?
- 12/01/2011 09:51:00 PM
1308 Views
Admitted? No, but they'll take anyone with the grades.
- 13/01/2011 09:47:42 PM
1310 Views
Every study I have seen shows most schools have few to no non-leberal proffesors
- 13/01/2011 10:07:08 PM
1240 Views
Every study I've ever seen shows that math and science fields have few to no women.
- 13/01/2011 10:42:46 PM
1328 Views
not when we know men are better at math thewpmen are
- 13/01/2011 11:10:18 PM
1413 Views
- 13/01/2011 11:10:18 PM
1413 Views
Sigh... we know no such thing, and even if we did, it would be those biased liberals telling us.
- 13/01/2011 11:30:33 PM
1214 Views
When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math
- 12/01/2011 03:47:53 PM
1336 Views
Both, really; the latter is a consequence of the former.
- 12/01/2011 05:21:28 PM
1209 Views
I'm trying to understand your position
- 12/01/2011 05:28:43 PM
1297 Views
Now you've got it.
- 12/01/2011 06:40:50 PM
1377 Views
we know the brain of women works differently then the brains of men
- 12/01/2011 05:40:15 PM
1334 Views
What evidence I'm aware of seems inconclusive.
- 12/01/2011 06:46:50 PM
1164 Views
There are theories but of course they are unprovable
- 12/01/2011 10:50:08 PM
1277 Views
That's a logical rationale, and might even be accurate, but in this case I want hard evidence.
- 13/01/2011 09:03:32 PM
1224 Views
I think if you look you find you believe all sorts of things that can't be proven
- 13/01/2011 10:03:54 PM
1289 Views
here is some evdience to argue that it is not society but biology
- 13/01/2011 08:43:43 PM
1331 Views
I think you did like I always do and forgot to give us a way to click your link.
- 13/01/2011 09:56:52 PM
1330 Views
- 13/01/2011 09:56:52 PM
1330 Views
oops
- 13/01/2011 10:07:55 PM
1341 Views
Seems like that's an argument for both views, in a way.
- 13/01/2011 11:14:11 PM
1230 Views
You can use anything to prove what you want if you are willing to spin it hard enough
- 14/01/2011 02:57:29 PM
1502 Views
I would also like to say this:
- 11/01/2011 09:33:23 PM
1298 Views
Of course
- 12/01/2011 01:47:14 AM
1334 Views
"Night" is also almost invariably feminine, in my experience.
- 12/01/2011 07:58:12 PM
1344 Views
Re: "Night" is also almost invariably feminine, in my experience.
- 12/01/2011 08:15:59 PM
1335 Views
I'm glad YOU think it's fun...
- 13/01/2011 10:05:07 PM
1302 Views
I seem to remember reading about genders in Norwegian once, but I forget now...
- 13/01/2011 10:11:24 PM
1336 Views
Re: I would also like to say this:
- 12/01/2011 09:15:28 AM
1344 Views
Re: I would also like to say this:
- 12/01/2011 12:27:14 PM
1324 Views
No
- 12/01/2011 12:28:48 PM
1225 Views
Re: No
- 12/01/2011 12:35:56 PM
1195 Views
Re: No
- 12/01/2011 12:37:33 PM
1308 Views
Re: No
- 12/01/2011 12:43:36 PM
1303 Views
Re: No
- 12/01/2011 12:47:56 PM
1338 Views
Since this has become too complicated
- 12/01/2011 12:54:54 PM
1344 Views
The two are used as different psychological concepts.
- 12/01/2011 02:24:58 PM
1284 Views
Have you left a memo at the Feminist Movement's Office?
- 12/01/2011 12:46:45 AM
1343 Views
what the point? Like good liberals they only believe science that agrees with them
*NM*
- 12/01/2011 05:31:09 AM
671 Views
*NM*
- 12/01/2011 05:31:09 AM
671 Views
Actually, the feminist movement was completely successful.
- 12/01/2011 01:42:44 AM
1334 Views
I was playing a bit but I agree that the feminist in the past accomplished a lot
- 12/01/2011 05:34:04 AM
1338 Views
NOW is just a left-leaning PAC.
- 12/01/2011 03:16:52 PM
1297 Views
I would argue the women's movement and the feminist movement are not the same thing
- 12/01/2011 03:53:19 PM
1298 Views
Mmm. I don't think you understand the feminist movement. You have been reading to many things
- 12/01/2011 01:56:20 AM
1340 Views
I was refering to groups like NOW
- 12/01/2011 05:40:46 AM
1285 Views
Gosh, look what you started.
- 12/01/2011 03:00:23 PM
1318 Views
- 12/01/2011 03:00:23 PM
1318 Views
somebody need to start something it is pretty dead around here *NM*
- 12/01/2011 03:16:54 PM
760 Views
I agree that it would be awesome to hang with my kid every day and not have to work.
- 12/01/2011 11:33:25 PM
1358 Views
that part would be great
- 12/01/2011 11:40:49 PM
1314 Views
I could do it every day.
- 13/01/2011 12:52:56 AM
1249 Views
So here's the question. Why don't men have a "choice" to opt-out?
- 15/01/2011 06:13:28 AM
1318 Views
This sounds awful to me.
- 13/01/2011 04:27:08 AM
1312 Views
- 13/01/2011 04:27:08 AM
1312 Views
I should have twigged on to that sooner. I would have if I had read more posts before answering.
- 13/01/2011 02:50:20 AM
1309 Views

