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Thanks (I'm actually OK with women priests though). Joel Send a noteboard - 12/05/2011 07:09:11 AM
You're excoriating Joel for asking a very valid question. There is a clear and explicit disconnect between the way you are practicing Christianity and the way that it has been understood for some two odd millennia. If you're willing to say that you're Gnostics, Arians or Cathars, or that you're a new branch of Christianity based on a different revelation then I can accept that as your choice. However, you claim to be Pauline Christians following the text of the Bible. There is explicit language against all of these acts in the Bible. I haven't seen a satisfactory explanation from the Presbyterian Church (which has admittedly never been strong on theology) as to how these ideas are reconciled.

If you want to pillory Joel and be thankful he's not a Presbyterian, that's fine. Everyone around here has pilloried him at one time or another. However, don't think for an instant that this somehow means that the points he's raising aren't valid, or that you don't have to address them just because it makes you uncomfortable.

I suspect Ghav knows that and was trying to catch me in a double standard, but I don't feel bound to every one of Pauls shopping lists found and made canon, because in a few instances he says point blank he's giving his opinion rather than the Holy Spirits divine judgement. What status, if any, Chloe and Phoebe had in the early Christian hierachy may be debateable, but it's undeniable that the bible represents Deborah as a Judge, which was pretty much the top of the Churchs mortal hierarchy at the time. That trumps Paul in my book (so to speak). I can't think of any such examples regarding homosexuals though. Arguments that any biblical or Church Fathers writings or subsequent Church history and tradition condone the practice are very new, and I know of none that don't either discount the MANY prohibitions or make biblical friends of the same sex into lovers. I'm willing to say it MIGHT be open to interpretation because I'm not God and still don't consider the scribes infallible, but if practicing homosexuality is permissible it's a pretty glaring oversight given all the HOSTILE language on the subject. Again, I'm not saying anyone should be kicked out of the Church over it, but if the issue of whether it offends God is that uncertain condoning it in Church leaders is unwise.
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Presbyterian Church (USA) passes Amendment 10-A. - 11/05/2011 05:39:29 PM 1494 Views
*NM* - 11/05/2011 06:10:26 PM 355 Views
I am happy to see this. *NM* - 11/05/2011 07:22:59 PM 390 Views
Homosexuals must die! - 11/05/2011 08:25:25 PM 1157 Views
I agree! This sort of behavior can NOT be excused!!! - 11/05/2011 10:38:16 PM 813 Views
Yay!!. - 11/05/2011 10:38:51 PM 1087 Views
Glad to hear it. *NM* - 11/05/2011 10:46:39 PM 442 Views
Well done. *NM* - 11/05/2011 11:07:22 PM 391 Views
What's the language? Did they at least TRY to give a doctrinal justification? - 12/05/2011 02:10:46 AM 1070 Views
Thank you for that rousing argument against married priests. - 12/05/2011 03:36:51 AM 992 Views
Why ARE you letting women into the priesthood? - 12/05/2011 04:16:50 AM 922 Views
Because Episcopalians don't listen to the Bible much. - 12/05/2011 05:47:03 AM 857 Views
That's just fine as far as I'm concerned - 12/05/2011 02:23:44 PM 886 Views
Yes, I suppose a church could go that route. - 14/05/2011 07:38:02 AM 832 Views
I'm not attempting to impose a dichotomy on the Bible. - 14/05/2011 03:25:30 PM 909 Views
I don't even know what following the Bible in its entirety means. - 14/05/2011 09:09:10 PM 1073 Views
As an exercise, I tried to think of how I would justify allowing homosexuals as clergy. - 14/05/2011 04:19:43 PM 904 Views
Wow. - 20/05/2011 10:15:21 AM 918 Views
Thanks (I'm actually OK with women priests though). - 12/05/2011 07:09:11 AM 959 Views
It's more a question of interpretational standards. - 12/05/2011 02:29:43 PM 842 Views
Agreed. - 14/05/2011 01:17:45 AM 921 Views
They did so, via negativa. - 12/05/2011 04:22:17 PM 1033 Views
Your church has a constitution?! - 12/05/2011 03:36:41 AM 901 Views
My Church has a congress! *NM* - 12/05/2011 03:37:52 AM 431 Views
Haha no way! *NM* - 12/05/2011 03:46:32 AM 391 Views
We have a General Assembly and a Moderator. - 12/05/2011 04:18:34 PM 999 Views
I had no idea the US was based on that system. - 12/05/2011 06:22:58 PM 839 Views
It is pretty common practice - 12/05/2011 06:54:02 PM 874 Views
Oh I'm sure it is with newer churches. - 12/05/2011 10:49:11 PM 932 Views
I'm happy to hear this, personally. I also wonder how you reconcile this with the Bible. - 12/05/2011 04:11:31 AM 1074 Views
Every direct reference to homosexuality in the Bible is a reference to rape. - 12/05/2011 04:12:43 PM 904 Views
Every single word that you wrote in your response is complete bullshit. - 12/05/2011 05:50:07 PM 1041 Views
Knock off your eisegesis, try some exegesis - 12/05/2011 07:02:45 PM 943 Views
I'm trying to figure out just what your "gifts" are, because I don't see any. - 12/05/2011 07:30:39 PM 918 Views
Oh, is that how we're playing this, then? - 13/05/2011 06:29:31 PM 927 Views
Re: Oh, is that how we're playing this, then? - 13/05/2011 07:02:35 PM 910 Views
I'm not playing. I'm pointing out some glaring errors on your part. - 13/05/2011 07:25:08 PM 832 Views
Danny will correct me if I'm wrong, but... - 13/05/2011 09:55:14 PM 1022 Views
Danny persistently refuses to say that - 13/05/2011 10:13:55 PM 959 Views
And with respect to your textual point, once again you're wrong - 12/05/2011 07:44:10 PM 1049 Views
You're a fucking moron. *NM* - 15/05/2011 11:11:08 PM 416 Views
You make a very important but too often overlooked point. - 14/05/2011 01:54:40 AM 1033 Views
??? the bible was harsher on homosexulaity than on rape - 12/05/2011 06:56:43 PM 886 Views
Read Judges. - 12/05/2011 07:17:29 PM 892 Views
Another example... - 12/05/2011 09:19:52 AM 815 Views
That's what people said about churches opposing slavery. - 12/05/2011 04:06:26 PM 879 Views
I rest my case *NM* - 12/05/2011 04:48:32 PM 383 Views
That is a false dichotomy and we both know it. - 14/05/2011 02:07:19 AM 870 Views
If you claim to follow the entire Bible, then you are completely correct. - 12/05/2011 06:04:38 PM 811 Views
On the contrary, this move will take some butts out of the seats. - 12/05/2011 07:16:22 PM 870 Views
We both know that isn't the case - 12/05/2011 07:55:41 PM 976 Views
Whatever your issue is, get over it. - 13/05/2011 06:17:26 PM 827 Views
You'd be a lot more effective... - 13/05/2011 06:45:31 PM 945 Views
You haven't adequately expressed your theology - 13/05/2011 07:28:54 PM 927 Views
Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels - 12/05/2011 05:33:49 PM 926 Views
Since I haven't gotten around to asking yet... - 13/05/2011 07:14:01 PM 837 Views
Re: Since I haven't gotten around to asking yet... - 15/05/2011 03:18:23 PM 1250 Views

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