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I'm not playing. I'm pointing out some glaring errors on your part. Tom Send a noteboard - 13/05/2011 07:25:08 PM
First, I did address the "facts" that you claim I "missed", and I further provided textual evidence to continue to refute your vague and misguided claims.

With respect to translation, I did not make up any rules of translation. The Bible speaks for itself and is clear, and the consensus of translators is with me. In fact, I'm not aware of any translation of the Bible that substantively changes the words either of Leviticus 18:22 or of Romans 1:27 (aside from some potential radical "reworkings" of the Bible that no one would recognize as being the same book if they read it).

Your problem has been and continues to be that you misquote (and misspell) the Scripture upon which you have professed to base your life, and as a result of this you make completely unfounded and unsubstantiated claims so that you can retain a sense of moral superiority and a delusion that your Church has not adapted to the times or essentially cast aside portions of the Bible as not applicable.

I have repeatedly said that I don't have a problem with either approach (i.e., adapting to the times or casting aside Bible passages as irrelevant). My problem is with the gross hypocrisy of your own position, and your repeated failure to distinguish how what you say is not hypocritical. You have at no point addressed the key and fundamental question that both I and others have asked, which is namely this: because the Bible regards homosexual sex between men as a sin (and the facts are completely unambiguous on this point; the text of the Bible is quite clear), how can an openly homosexual man serve as a minister without violating the key principles of salvation and redemption, namely, that the sinner must try not to sin? How is your homosexual minister different from an adulterer who openly keeps a mistress and continues to live with her, while remaining married?

The issue has nothing to do with textual contradictions in the Bible, either. There is no conflicting passage that says "a man who lies with another man is blessed in the eyes of the Lord". There is also no conflicting passage that says "the sinner is saved even if he continues to sin without repentance". If there were, your Church could hang its hat on that point and choose to follow one or the other of the injunctions as the "proper course".

Of course, if you will admit that the Bible is a flawed document and you're willing to disregard Leviticus 18:22 and Romans 1:27, then you don't have a problem. You resist this, however, and therefore you continue in a hypocritical position.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
This message last edited by Tom on 13/05/2011 at 07:30:46 PM
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Presbyterian Church (USA) passes Amendment 10-A. - 11/05/2011 05:39:29 PM 1478 Views
*NM* - 11/05/2011 06:10:26 PM 344 Views
I am happy to see this. *NM* - 11/05/2011 07:22:59 PM 382 Views
Homosexuals must die! - 11/05/2011 08:25:25 PM 1142 Views
I agree! This sort of behavior can NOT be excused!!! - 11/05/2011 10:38:16 PM 790 Views
Yay!!. - 11/05/2011 10:38:51 PM 1054 Views
Glad to hear it. *NM* - 11/05/2011 10:46:39 PM 434 Views
Well done. *NM* - 11/05/2011 11:07:22 PM 381 Views
What's the language? Did they at least TRY to give a doctrinal justification? - 12/05/2011 02:10:46 AM 1054 Views
Thank you for that rousing argument against married priests. - 12/05/2011 03:36:51 AM 962 Views
Why ARE you letting women into the priesthood? - 12/05/2011 04:16:50 AM 900 Views
Because Episcopalians don't listen to the Bible much. - 12/05/2011 05:47:03 AM 840 Views
That's just fine as far as I'm concerned - 12/05/2011 02:23:44 PM 867 Views
Yes, I suppose a church could go that route. - 14/05/2011 07:38:02 AM 811 Views
I'm not attempting to impose a dichotomy on the Bible. - 14/05/2011 03:25:30 PM 887 Views
I don't even know what following the Bible in its entirety means. - 14/05/2011 09:09:10 PM 1051 Views
As an exercise, I tried to think of how I would justify allowing homosexuals as clergy. - 14/05/2011 04:19:43 PM 877 Views
Wow. - 20/05/2011 10:15:21 AM 897 Views
Thanks (I'm actually OK with women priests though). - 12/05/2011 07:09:11 AM 937 Views
It's more a question of interpretational standards. - 12/05/2011 02:29:43 PM 827 Views
Agreed. - 14/05/2011 01:17:45 AM 901 Views
They did so, via negativa. - 12/05/2011 04:22:17 PM 994 Views
Your church has a constitution?! - 12/05/2011 03:36:41 AM 883 Views
My Church has a congress! *NM* - 12/05/2011 03:37:52 AM 421 Views
Haha no way! *NM* - 12/05/2011 03:46:32 AM 382 Views
We have a General Assembly and a Moderator. - 12/05/2011 04:18:34 PM 975 Views
I had no idea the US was based on that system. - 12/05/2011 06:22:58 PM 811 Views
It is pretty common practice - 12/05/2011 06:54:02 PM 842 Views
Oh I'm sure it is with newer churches. - 12/05/2011 10:49:11 PM 900 Views
I'm happy to hear this, personally. I also wonder how you reconcile this with the Bible. - 12/05/2011 04:11:31 AM 1052 Views
Every direct reference to homosexuality in the Bible is a reference to rape. - 12/05/2011 04:12:43 PM 881 Views
Every single word that you wrote in your response is complete bullshit. - 12/05/2011 05:50:07 PM 1013 Views
Knock off your eisegesis, try some exegesis - 12/05/2011 07:02:45 PM 925 Views
I'm trying to figure out just what your "gifts" are, because I don't see any. - 12/05/2011 07:30:39 PM 896 Views
Oh, is that how we're playing this, then? - 13/05/2011 06:29:31 PM 908 Views
Re: Oh, is that how we're playing this, then? - 13/05/2011 07:02:35 PM 887 Views
I'm not playing. I'm pointing out some glaring errors on your part. - 13/05/2011 07:25:08 PM 803 Views
Danny will correct me if I'm wrong, but... - 13/05/2011 09:55:14 PM 1002 Views
Danny persistently refuses to say that - 13/05/2011 10:13:55 PM 933 Views
And with respect to your textual point, once again you're wrong - 12/05/2011 07:44:10 PM 1027 Views
You're a fucking moron. *NM* - 15/05/2011 11:11:08 PM 407 Views
You make a very important but too often overlooked point. - 14/05/2011 01:54:40 AM 1011 Views
??? the bible was harsher on homosexulaity than on rape - 12/05/2011 06:56:43 PM 866 Views
Read Judges. - 12/05/2011 07:17:29 PM 874 Views
Another example... - 12/05/2011 09:19:52 AM 797 Views
That's what people said about churches opposing slavery. - 12/05/2011 04:06:26 PM 858 Views
I rest my case *NM* - 12/05/2011 04:48:32 PM 373 Views
That is a false dichotomy and we both know it. - 14/05/2011 02:07:19 AM 845 Views
If you claim to follow the entire Bible, then you are completely correct. - 12/05/2011 06:04:38 PM 791 Views
On the contrary, this move will take some butts out of the seats. - 12/05/2011 07:16:22 PM 845 Views
We both know that isn't the case - 12/05/2011 07:55:41 PM 937 Views
Whatever your issue is, get over it. - 13/05/2011 06:17:26 PM 809 Views
You'd be a lot more effective... - 13/05/2011 06:45:31 PM 929 Views
You haven't adequately expressed your theology - 13/05/2011 07:28:54 PM 909 Views
Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels - 12/05/2011 05:33:49 PM 911 Views
Since I haven't gotten around to asking yet... - 13/05/2011 07:14:01 PM 820 Views
Re: Since I haven't gotten around to asking yet... - 15/05/2011 03:18:23 PM 1228 Views

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