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Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. Joel Send a noteboard - 14/05/2011 05:36:45 AM
Perhaps so. It doesn't sound like a case of ruling out one thing ruling in another, not when we still await direct evidence of dark matter.


Exotic dark matter is the group of explanations that makes by far the most sense after a full consideration of the evidence that we have. Direct detection experiments are very important for narrowing the span of that theory space, but the current evidence overwhelmingly sends us there already.

Statements like that are what make me nervous, because you seem to be saying we know exotic dark matter is out there and are now simply refining our understanding of that known substance. Another unhypothesized approach might be accurate, but we've already found the answer so we won't bother looking for it. If you're just saying direct detection experiments will narrow the space of all possible theories that's different, of course, but if you're saying dark matter has been proven by default and we're just seeking experimental and observational evidence to better describe what we know to exist we're back where we started: We've never directly detected it, but we know it's there, so let's keep looking till we find it. Whether it actually IS there or not. I'm not confident that we'll quickly realize if it's not there because it's impossible to prove a negative; that's why there are still people looking for proton decay despite the fact it's not only unlikely to occur, but unlikely to be detectable in any reproducable way even if it does.
Maybe not centuries given the rate at which things occur today (though the first team to detect a neutrino only got a Nobel Prize for it a half century later). Blind alleys and group think remain a valid concern though, one that's more serious rather than less as theories advance. Dusting off terms like "quintessence" for dark energy doesn't exactly reassure me there. Bottomline is that any time people become so committed to a theory that they cease questioning whether it could have a fundamental flaw all the review and experimentation in the world won't help them; when the evidence conflicts with an inviolable principle the search begins, not for a more accurate principle, but for a way to reconcile the evidence with the flawed the theory. That process will last as long as a community is willing to pursue it, and is less a function of research than of the theorys social inertia. If you say that's not happening I'll accept that since you're obviously in a better position to say so, but modern science hasn't made it impossible, and the idea it has is another example of the kind of unassailable certainty that makes me nervous.

Again, these nebulous "people" supposedly becoming so committed to a theory. There are plenty of scientists who continue to look critically at the theory. Of course modern science hasn't made such a thing impossible, but it has reduced its likelihood to far below the level at which you appear to be worrying about it.

If you say so.
Interesting comment; do you think someone has a FULL understanding of the situation and evidence, or that all proposed solutions are futile?

The situation, in that context, is the breadth of the evidence, theorizing, and experiments in the field as it stands today.

It could have either meaning, but I accept that was the specific one intended.
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Exciting video about the universe - 28/04/2011 10:14:55 AM 1042 Views
Cool, and true *NM* - 28/04/2011 11:46:29 AM 311 Views
I still think dark matter's just non-luminous matter without a convenient light source to reflect. - 28/04/2011 10:34:21 PM 777 Views
We've just about ruled out the idea that dark matter is just non-luminous "ordinary" matter. - 28/04/2011 11:44:34 PM 707 Views
I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. - 29/04/2011 01:52:49 AM 641 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. - 29/04/2011 02:56:32 AM 746 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. - 30/04/2011 05:02:49 PM 707 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. - 30/04/2011 08:56:35 PM 579 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. - 02/05/2011 01:28:30 AM 616 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. - 04/05/2011 04:18:18 AM 714 Views
There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. - 07/05/2011 02:04:53 AM 789 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. - 09/05/2011 11:28:48 PM 627 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. - 14/05/2011 05:36:45 AM 573 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. - 17/05/2011 02:09:40 AM 665 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. - 19/05/2011 04:55:21 AM 587 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. - 24/05/2011 09:32:27 PM 662 Views
The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind. - 24/05/2011 10:34:04 PM 606 Views
Re: The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind. - 24/05/2011 11:08:01 PM 812 Views
Re: The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind. - 25/05/2011 01:27:10 AM 624 Views
Re: The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind. - 31/05/2011 09:16:18 AM 692 Views
Also, re: lensing from ordinary matter: - 29/04/2011 05:18:47 AM 633 Views
This seems like another example of what confuses the issue. - 30/04/2011 05:25:04 PM 723 Views
Re: This seems like another example of what confuses the issue. - 30/04/2011 08:56:40 PM 731 Views
That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". - 02/05/2011 01:29:03 AM 729 Views
Re: I still think... (apparently, there is a 100 character limit on subjects, and yours was 99) - 28/04/2011 11:57:15 PM 945 Views
Seems to happen to me a lot; sorry. - 29/04/2011 12:56:14 AM 651 Views
None of this reflects on the actual facts of dark matter. - 29/04/2011 01:32:52 AM 619 Views
I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes. - 30/04/2011 04:30:28 PM 745 Views
Re: I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes. - 30/04/2011 08:56:44 PM 577 Views
Re: I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes. - 02/05/2011 01:28:58 AM 1089 Views
Re: I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes. - 04/05/2011 04:18:27 AM 619 Views
I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. - 07/05/2011 02:05:09 AM 810 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. - 09/05/2011 11:32:17 PM 732 Views

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