But it seems to me "literalism or nothing" is something of a false dichotomy. Presumably scholarship and, yes, discernment and prayer exist to help us view the Bible as the complex document it is: divinely inspired, but written by humans and thereby subject to all their foibles.
That said, I can't immediately think of any Episcopalian priests whose general theology I agree with who really issue prescriptive moral boundaries beyond the Great Commandment. Maybe Micah: do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with your God.
God wantiing us not to be assholes makes sense; God wanting us not to screw assholes makes rather less. Or to put it less crudely, what sort of loving being makes up arbitrary rules that don't really matter? How do people say "Well, I don't see anything wrong with homosexuality, but the Bible says it's bad, so it must be. Ways above my ways and all that"? We don't need the Bible to tell us murder is wrong. We don't need the Bible to tell us we shouldn't steal. We know these things are wrong.
To my mind, the Bible is there to show us a story of redemption and reconciliation and to give us a message of how we can be redeemed and reconciled with God. There are old rules that are part of that story, but they belong to the Hebrews, not to us. Focusing on the rules of the Bible misses the real message of it.
Sorry about the exceptionally rambling nature of this post. It's late and I'm on my phone, meaning that by the time I end a sentence I have forgotten how it began.
That said, I can't immediately think of any Episcopalian priests whose general theology I agree with who really issue prescriptive moral boundaries beyond the Great Commandment. Maybe Micah: do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with your God.
God wantiing us not to be assholes makes sense; God wanting us not to screw assholes makes rather less. Or to put it less crudely, what sort of loving being makes up arbitrary rules that don't really matter? How do people say "Well, I don't see anything wrong with homosexuality, but the Bible says it's bad, so it must be. Ways above my ways and all that"? We don't need the Bible to tell us murder is wrong. We don't need the Bible to tell us we shouldn't steal. We know these things are wrong.
To my mind, the Bible is there to show us a story of redemption and reconciliation and to give us a message of how we can be redeemed and reconciled with God. There are old rules that are part of that story, but they belong to the Hebrews, not to us. Focusing on the rules of the Bible misses the real message of it.
Sorry about the exceptionally rambling nature of this post. It's late and I'm on my phone, meaning that by the time I end a sentence I have forgotten how it began.
"We feel safe when we read what we recognise, what does not challenge our way of thinking.... a steady acceptance of pre-arranged patterns leads to the inability to question what we are told."
~Camilla
Ghavrel is Ghavrel is Ghavrel
*MySmiley*
~Camilla
Ghavrel is Ghavrel is Ghavrel
*MySmiley*
Presbyterian Church (USA) passes Amendment 10-A.
- 11/05/2011 05:39:29 PM
1494 Views
What's the language? Did they at least TRY to give a doctrinal justification?
- 12/05/2011 02:10:46 AM
1067 Views
Thank you for that rousing argument against married priests.
- 12/05/2011 03:36:51 AM
992 Views
Why ARE you letting women into the priesthood?
- 12/05/2011 04:16:50 AM
921 Views
Because Episcopalians don't listen to the Bible much.
- 12/05/2011 05:47:03 AM
857 Views
That's just fine as far as I'm concerned
- 12/05/2011 02:23:44 PM
882 Views
Yes, I suppose a church could go that route.
- 14/05/2011 07:38:02 AM
831 Views
I'm not attempting to impose a dichotomy on the Bible.
- 14/05/2011 03:25:30 PM
906 Views
I don't even know what following the Bible in its entirety means.
- 14/05/2011 09:09:10 PM
1069 Views
As an exercise, I tried to think of how I would justify allowing homosexuals as clergy.
- 14/05/2011 04:19:43 PM
902 Views
Thanks (I'm actually OK with women priests though).
- 12/05/2011 07:09:11 AM
958 Views
There's ample precedent for female religious leaders, even within the bible.
- 12/05/2011 06:51:05 AM
1004 Views
Since when is Moses' society the be-all end all?
- 12/05/2011 07:12:41 PM
859 Views
Since never, which is why I referenced five other eras you completely ignored.
- 14/05/2011 01:11:30 AM
964 Views
They did so, via negativa.
- 12/05/2011 04:22:17 PM
1029 Views
Sorry for the delay, particularly since it looks like I'll be spending a fair amount of time here.
- 14/05/2011 12:31:33 AM
838 Views
Your church has a constitution?!
- 12/05/2011 03:36:41 AM
898 Views
My Church has a congress!
*NM*
- 12/05/2011 03:37:52 AM
430 Views
*NM*
- 12/05/2011 03:37:52 AM
430 Views
Haha no way! *NM*
- 12/05/2011 03:46:32 AM
391 Views
Well, we have one group of laity and one of bishops, so it is only mildy utter chaos.
*NM*
- 12/05/2011 05:51:09 AM
425 Views
*NM*
- 12/05/2011 05:51:09 AM
425 Views
I'm happy to hear this, personally. I also wonder how you reconcile this with the Bible.
- 12/05/2011 04:11:31 AM
1071 Views
Every direct reference to homosexuality in the Bible is a reference to rape.
- 12/05/2011 04:12:43 PM
902 Views
Every single word that you wrote in your response is complete bullshit.
- 12/05/2011 05:50:07 PM
1037 Views
Knock off your eisegesis, try some exegesis
- 12/05/2011 07:02:45 PM
943 Views
I'm trying to figure out just what your "gifts" are, because I don't see any.
- 12/05/2011 07:30:39 PM
917 Views
There are cases in which hypocrisy is far better than the alternatives.
- 12/05/2011 10:04:32 PM
992 Views
Hypocrisy is better than, say, setting gays on fire, yes.
- 12/05/2011 10:10:40 PM
968 Views
My statement is that, from a pragmatic point of view, hypocrisy shouldn't be discouraged too much.
- 13/05/2011 10:05:39 PM
989 Views
Oh, is that how we're playing this, then?
- 13/05/2011 06:29:31 PM
927 Views
I'm not playing. I'm pointing out some glaring errors on your part.
- 13/05/2011 07:25:08 PM
827 Views
The Bible says what it says. The problem... people like to tell us just what else it's saying.
- 13/05/2011 05:31:29 PM
894 Views
You don't reconcile... you pick the parts you like and adjust the rest to suit you.
- 13/05/2011 09:33:54 PM
815 Views
Another example...
- 12/05/2011 09:19:52 AM
814 Views
If you claim to follow the entire Bible, then you are completely correct.
- 12/05/2011 06:04:38 PM
811 Views
On the contrary, this move will take some butts out of the seats.
- 12/05/2011 07:16:22 PM
869 Views
We both know that isn't the case
- 12/05/2011 07:55:41 PM
973 Views
Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels
- 12/05/2011 05:33:49 PM
925 Views
No Protestant denomination has added so much as a word to the Bible
- 12/05/2011 05:58:16 PM
807 Views
So, everyone hates Judith, then?
- 12/05/2011 06:40:11 PM
886 Views
The Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Churches accept Judith as part of Scripture.
- 12/05/2011 07:51:27 PM
832 Views
Does the Eastern Orthodox Church also segregate deuterocanonical works like Roman Catholicism does?
- 14/05/2011 02:19:03 AM
1143 Views
The Eastern Church bases everything on the Septuagint.
- 14/05/2011 02:34:41 AM
889 Views
That sounds appealing, and makes sense.
- 14/05/2011 02:44:56 AM
899 Views
Oh, I just enjoy calling Protestants "heretics" to remind them not everyone agrees with them.
- 14/05/2011 03:25:42 AM
848 Views
Re: Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels
- 12/05/2011 08:52:48 PM
868 Views
The NIV is terrible. The NASB has the best translation I have found (of the NT, at least).
- 12/05/2011 10:43:58 PM
1014 Views
I find this really weird, to be honest
- 13/05/2011 05:48:28 AM
922 Views
Well, it wasn't just Athanasius. But yes, we are lucky in that respect. *NM*
- 13/05/2011 06:32:48 AM
365 Views
Athanasius's list reflected the victory of Pauline Christianity
- 13/05/2011 02:52:53 PM
835 Views
There's a school of thought that says that's a strong vindication of Athanasius.
- 14/05/2011 02:37:49 AM
790 Views
- 14/05/2011 02:37:49 AM
790 Views

*NM*