I'm not attempting to impose a dichotomy on the Bible.
Tom Send a noteboard - 14/05/2011 03:25:30 PM
My primary problem is when a person or denomination claims to be following the Bible in its entirety after beginning to pick and choose.
Furthermore, though, the approach that you suggested (or perhaps started to suggest and then stopped suggesting) is one that borders on universalism rather than Christianity (which is not necessarily a bad thing, but there is a distinction). You wrote that we all know murder is bad, etc. If this is the case, why have the Bible at all? If everything is intuitive, we don't need to write it down. Of course, a few people just blew themselves up in Pakistan and killed 80 people, injuring about 140 more, so obviously not everyone agrees that murder is bad, if it's done for the "right" reasons.
Regardless, the Bible's position on homosexuality is so explicit that with respect to this one issue, I think that it is very difficult to take a traditional Christian faith and impose the level of understanding on it that the Presbyterian church has now tried to impose. It is one thing to allow homosexuals to worship as part of a compassionate and forgiving church where each member can have doubts as to the divine inspiration behind a particular passage here or there, but quite another to allow this person to lead the congregation.
Furthermore, though, the approach that you suggested (or perhaps started to suggest and then stopped suggesting) is one that borders on universalism rather than Christianity (which is not necessarily a bad thing, but there is a distinction). You wrote that we all know murder is bad, etc. If this is the case, why have the Bible at all? If everything is intuitive, we don't need to write it down. Of course, a few people just blew themselves up in Pakistan and killed 80 people, injuring about 140 more, so obviously not everyone agrees that murder is bad, if it's done for the "right" reasons.
Regardless, the Bible's position on homosexuality is so explicit that with respect to this one issue, I think that it is very difficult to take a traditional Christian faith and impose the level of understanding on it that the Presbyterian church has now tried to impose. It is one thing to allow homosexuals to worship as part of a compassionate and forgiving church where each member can have doubts as to the divine inspiration behind a particular passage here or there, but quite another to allow this person to lead the congregation.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
Presbyterian Church (USA) passes Amendment 10-A.
- 11/05/2011 05:39:29 PM
1495 Views
What's the language? Did they at least TRY to give a doctrinal justification?
- 12/05/2011 02:10:46 AM
1071 Views
Thank you for that rousing argument against married priests.
- 12/05/2011 03:36:51 AM
993 Views
Why ARE you letting women into the priesthood?
- 12/05/2011 04:16:50 AM
922 Views
Because Episcopalians don't listen to the Bible much.
- 12/05/2011 05:47:03 AM
857 Views
That's just fine as far as I'm concerned
- 12/05/2011 02:23:44 PM
886 Views
Yes, I suppose a church could go that route.
- 14/05/2011 07:38:02 AM
832 Views
I'm not attempting to impose a dichotomy on the Bible.
- 14/05/2011 03:25:30 PM
910 Views
I don't even know what following the Bible in its entirety means.
- 14/05/2011 09:09:10 PM
1073 Views
As an exercise, I tried to think of how I would justify allowing homosexuals as clergy.
- 14/05/2011 04:19:43 PM
904 Views
Thanks (I'm actually OK with women priests though).
- 12/05/2011 07:09:11 AM
959 Views
There's ample precedent for female religious leaders, even within the bible.
- 12/05/2011 06:51:05 AM
1007 Views
Since when is Moses' society the be-all end all?
- 12/05/2011 07:12:41 PM
860 Views
Since never, which is why I referenced five other eras you completely ignored.
- 14/05/2011 01:11:30 AM
965 Views
They did so, via negativa.
- 12/05/2011 04:22:17 PM
1034 Views
Sorry for the delay, particularly since it looks like I'll be spending a fair amount of time here.
- 14/05/2011 12:31:33 AM
839 Views
Your church has a constitution?!
- 12/05/2011 03:36:41 AM
901 Views
My Church has a congress!
*NM*
- 12/05/2011 03:37:52 AM
431 Views
*NM*
- 12/05/2011 03:37:52 AM
431 Views
Haha no way! *NM*
- 12/05/2011 03:46:32 AM
392 Views
Well, we have one group of laity and one of bishops, so it is only mildy utter chaos.
*NM*
- 12/05/2011 05:51:09 AM
427 Views
*NM*
- 12/05/2011 05:51:09 AM
427 Views
I'm happy to hear this, personally. I also wonder how you reconcile this with the Bible.
- 12/05/2011 04:11:31 AM
1074 Views
Every direct reference to homosexuality in the Bible is a reference to rape.
- 12/05/2011 04:12:43 PM
904 Views
Every single word that you wrote in your response is complete bullshit.
- 12/05/2011 05:50:07 PM
1041 Views
Knock off your eisegesis, try some exegesis
- 12/05/2011 07:02:45 PM
944 Views
I'm trying to figure out just what your "gifts" are, because I don't see any.
- 12/05/2011 07:30:39 PM
918 Views
There are cases in which hypocrisy is far better than the alternatives.
- 12/05/2011 10:04:32 PM
993 Views
Hypocrisy is better than, say, setting gays on fire, yes.
- 12/05/2011 10:10:40 PM
969 Views
My statement is that, from a pragmatic point of view, hypocrisy shouldn't be discouraged too much.
- 13/05/2011 10:05:39 PM
990 Views
Oh, is that how we're playing this, then?
- 13/05/2011 06:29:31 PM
927 Views
I'm not playing. I'm pointing out some glaring errors on your part.
- 13/05/2011 07:25:08 PM
832 Views
The Bible says what it says. The problem... people like to tell us just what else it's saying.
- 13/05/2011 05:31:29 PM
895 Views
You don't reconcile... you pick the parts you like and adjust the rest to suit you.
- 13/05/2011 09:33:54 PM
818 Views
Another example...
- 12/05/2011 09:19:52 AM
816 Views
If you claim to follow the entire Bible, then you are completely correct.
- 12/05/2011 06:04:38 PM
812 Views
On the contrary, this move will take some butts out of the seats.
- 12/05/2011 07:16:22 PM
871 Views
We both know that isn't the case
- 12/05/2011 07:55:41 PM
976 Views
Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels
- 12/05/2011 05:33:49 PM
926 Views
No Protestant denomination has added so much as a word to the Bible
- 12/05/2011 05:58:16 PM
809 Views
So, everyone hates Judith, then?
- 12/05/2011 06:40:11 PM
889 Views
The Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Churches accept Judith as part of Scripture.
- 12/05/2011 07:51:27 PM
833 Views
Does the Eastern Orthodox Church also segregate deuterocanonical works like Roman Catholicism does?
- 14/05/2011 02:19:03 AM
1147 Views
The Eastern Church bases everything on the Septuagint.
- 14/05/2011 02:34:41 AM
892 Views
That sounds appealing, and makes sense.
- 14/05/2011 02:44:56 AM
900 Views
Oh, I just enjoy calling Protestants "heretics" to remind them not everyone agrees with them.
- 14/05/2011 03:25:42 AM
849 Views
Re: Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels
- 12/05/2011 08:52:48 PM
869 Views
The NIV is terrible. The NASB has the best translation I have found (of the NT, at least).
- 12/05/2011 10:43:58 PM
1015 Views
I find this really weird, to be honest
- 13/05/2011 05:48:28 AM
926 Views
Well, it wasn't just Athanasius. But yes, we are lucky in that respect. *NM*
- 13/05/2011 06:32:48 AM
366 Views
Athanasius's list reflected the victory of Pauline Christianity
- 13/05/2011 02:52:53 PM
838 Views
There's a school of thought that says that's a strong vindication of Athanasius.
- 14/05/2011 02:37:49 AM
792 Views
- 14/05/2011 02:37:49 AM
792 Views

*NM*