Active Users:1240 Time:16/09/2026 12:05:01 PM
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules
Unreasonable doubt is impossible to eliminate. Joel Send a noteboard - 22/09/2011 09:54:43 PM
.....but I would use the standard of "no doubt" instead of "beyond a reasonable doubt". This means.....DNA, physical evidence, getting caught in the act, video, multiple independent eye-witnesses, etc.

That is why we word the verdict that way. Maybe I am just a coma victim in a hospital some place imagining the whole trial and events leading up to it, in which case the imaginary defendant is not guilty of any crimes against an imaginary victim. Maybe I am a mentally challenged jelly fish creature on a distant planet mistaking an entertainment program for reality. Those are irrefutable doubts, but far from reasonable ones, and should therefore not prevent anyones conviction. David Icke thinks extradimensional lizard people run the world, but his doubt of world leaders very humanity is unreasonable, and so not generally taken seriously.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 22/09/2011 at 10:05:25 PM
Reply to message
i'm proud to live in a country where you can be executed based on circumstantial evidence... moondog - 22/09/2011 04:06:07 PM 1659 Views
Yeah it's pretty damn disgusting and frustrating... ironclad - 22/09/2011 04:08:05 PM 937 Views
Well nossy - 22/09/2011 06:57:37 PM 989 Views
And yet the Supreme Court didn't stop it. You're a lawyer right? Dark Knight - 22/09/2011 04:19:05 PM 998 Views
Well, that right there was an ignorant thing to say. Dannymac - 22/09/2011 04:32:49 PM 1069 Views
But they get all the media attention Dark Knight - 22/09/2011 04:45:03 PM 956 Views
Er. Nate - 22/09/2011 05:09:44 PM 963 Views
What about the t-shirts? *NM* Dark Knight - 22/09/2011 05:47:49 PM 399 Views
Heh... you should perhaps Google 'The West Memphis 3' Jacob - 22/09/2011 05:29:06 PM 1058 Views
Cameron Todd Willingham is white, and his story is a national one since Perry is running for Pres Roland00 - 23/09/2011 03:41:52 PM 807 Views
those numbers are less schocking when you consider that blacks commet a lot more murders *NM* random thoughts - 22/09/2011 05:43:51 PM 414 Views
And this is a typically illogical argument. Cannoli - 22/09/2011 11:11:48 PM 971 Views
You're kidding, right? Dannymac - 23/09/2011 02:55:44 PM 948 Views
Re: You're kidding, right? ßelals Girl - 23/09/2011 07:36:38 PM 961 Views
Juror bias. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/09/2011 08:35:10 PM 384 Views
the jury was majority black *NM* random thoughts - 23/09/2011 09:03:48 PM 397 Views
In this instance, yes. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/09/2011 09:30:10 PM 353 Views
Your evidence for that? *NM* ßelals Girl - 23/09/2011 11:33:58 PM 394 Views
Twenty-one years of life in the American South. Ghavrel - 24/09/2011 12:40:10 AM 905 Views
Of course I'm interested ßelals Girl - 24/09/2011 04:03:51 AM 840 Views
From me being too involved with the subject material. I apologize. Ghavrel - 24/09/2011 11:16:06 AM 821 Views
No worries ßelals Girl - 24/09/2011 07:10:40 PM 811 Views
While I largely agree with your argument, I agree more with Cannoli on the NAACP. Joel - 23/09/2011 07:46:06 PM 887 Views
Wow ßelals Girl - 23/09/2011 07:50:06 PM 784 Views
It happens. Joel - 25/09/2011 03:09:00 PM 839 Views
yes the "you born white what more do you want" argument *NM* random thoughts - 23/09/2011 09:03:04 PM 392 Views
From what I've read it is pretty disturbing snoopcester - 22/09/2011 04:27:44 PM 1005 Views
Huh. Nate - 22/09/2011 04:47:20 PM 1007 Views
That jumped out at me too. Sareitha Sedai - 22/09/2011 04:50:52 PM 941 Views
What really confuses me Dark Knight - 22/09/2011 04:58:32 PM 884 Views
That's a good question and I really wish it would be addressed. Sareitha Sedai - 22/09/2011 05:05:40 PM 996 Views
Re: That's a good question and I really wish it would be addressed. Macharius - 22/09/2011 05:21:59 PM 1023 Views
If the original trial is shown to be flawed that's supposed to require a new trial. Joel - 22/09/2011 08:25:51 PM 909 Views
Well... Jacob - 22/09/2011 05:18:54 PM 1042 Views
So if I understand you correctly... LadyLorraine - 22/09/2011 05:23:00 PM 977 Views
Yes, that is correct. And proving witness coercion is likely to be difficult if not impossible. *NM* Macharius - 22/09/2011 05:30:37 PM 358 Views
almost random thoughts - 22/09/2011 08:25:06 PM 892 Views
Re: Well... Macharius - 22/09/2011 05:29:03 PM 954 Views
I know one reason is that MightyYT - 22/09/2011 08:27:41 PM 958 Views
it is only confusing because the evidence isn't really that shaky random thoughts - 22/09/2011 08:54:21 PM 958 Views
you are innocent until proven guilty random thoughts - 22/09/2011 05:34:57 PM 960 Views
You must change your perspective..... Jeordam - 22/09/2011 07:33:20 PM 934 Views
Well said *NM* Dark Knight - 22/09/2011 08:49:56 PM 427 Views
If I understand the Supreme Court correctly, the reason they denied the stay of execution was MightyYT - 22/09/2011 08:25:14 PM 963 Views
On its face, that is a good reason. Joel - 22/09/2011 10:07:44 PM 1003 Views
I completely support the Death Penalty without question..... trzaska2000 - 22/09/2011 08:27:54 PM 860 Views
Unreasonable doubt is impossible to eliminate. Joel - 22/09/2011 09:54:43 PM 947 Views
Doubt can be eliminated.....any question about Dalmer? trzaska2000 - 23/09/2011 01:00:52 PM 1002 Views
Maybe he was framed by an enemy, government conspiracy or aliens. Joel - 23/09/2011 01:54:21 PM 873 Views
Jigga what? *NM* trzaska2000 - 23/09/2011 03:36:07 PM 498 Views
"I do not know if I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly or am now a butterfly..." Joel - 23/09/2011 06:50:34 PM 873 Views
Circumstantial evidence is not, I believe, a bar to conviction. Joel - 22/09/2011 09:43:56 PM 851 Views
Regarding the salvation thing, that is an argument FOR the death penalty, in my mind. Cannoli - 22/09/2011 11:37:16 PM 905 Views
That motive is seflish and thus fatal. Joel - 23/09/2011 01:17:00 AM 881 Views
Bullshit Cannoli - 25/09/2011 03:53:05 AM 1068 Views
Where do YOU get the idea that imperfect contrition is good enough? Joel - 25/09/2011 02:29:18 PM 1399 Views
Thank God you're not an evangelist. Dannymac - 23/09/2011 02:59:06 PM 883 Views
And I pity the souls you have ministered to. They're in for a rude shock at their judgement Cannoli - 25/09/2011 04:01:05 AM 870 Views
lol roman catholicism *NM* Ghavrel - 25/09/2011 04:39:55 AM 366 Views
Not just Roman Catholics, y'know, everyone who thinks God was not BSing about judgement. Joel - 25/09/2011 09:47:12 PM 925 Views
lol hellfire and brimstone *NM* Ghavrel - 26/09/2011 12:12:28 AM 359 Views
I suppose in a consequences free world everything is a source of amusement. Joel - 26/09/2011 12:33:14 AM 1089 Views
You really don't understand irony, do you? Particularly as it applies to your post about this case. Cannoli - 22/09/2011 11:26:49 PM 991 Views
. Two Wongs - 23/09/2011 08:21:38 AM 906 Views
A list of anecdotal wrongs does not prove anything. If convictions can be wrong, so can exonerations *NM* Cannoli - 25/09/2011 04:03:26 AM 369 Views
Yes; it's the uncertainties that count. Either way. Two Wongs - 25/09/2011 04:15:48 AM 727 Views
sorry if i don't have time to link to every thing i've read on the subject moondog - 23/09/2011 02:54:50 PM 1049 Views
Well I would think you would have picked an article that offers some iota of proof of his innocence. Cannoli - 25/09/2011 04:14:45 AM 951 Views
I kind of agree. Vivien - 24/09/2011 12:05:27 AM 974 Views
Well, I wouldn't call eyewitness accounts circumstancial evidence. Vivien - 23/09/2011 11:45:48 PM 889 Views
Eyewitness testimony is incredibly unreliable. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/09/2011 12:39:51 AM 366 Views
Nor would I, but I've heard that lawyers say, "an eye witness is the worst witness you can have." Joel - 25/09/2011 03:23:53 PM 879 Views
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules

Reply to Message

Block Quote Paragraph Quote
Formatting
Smiley Codes