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Unreasonable doubt is impossible to eliminate. Joel Send a noteboard - 22/09/2011 09:54:43 PM
.....but I would use the standard of "no doubt" instead of "beyond a reasonable doubt". This means.....DNA, physical evidence, getting caught in the act, video, multiple independent eye-witnesses, etc.

That is why we word the verdict that way. Maybe I am just a coma victim in a hospital some place imagining the whole trial and events leading up to it, in which case the imaginary defendant is not guilty of any crimes against an imaginary victim. Maybe I am a mentally challenged jelly fish creature on a distant planet mistaking an entertainment program for reality. Those are irrefutable doubts, but far from reasonable ones, and should therefore not prevent anyones conviction. David Icke thinks extradimensional lizard people run the world, but his doubt of world leaders very humanity is unreasonable, and so not generally taken seriously.
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This message last edited by Joel on 22/09/2011 at 10:05:25 PM
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i'm proud to live in a country where you can be executed based on circumstantial evidence... moondog - 22/09/2011 04:06:07 PM 1487 Views
Yeah it's pretty damn disgusting and frustrating... ironclad - 22/09/2011 04:08:05 PM 794 Views
Well nossy - 22/09/2011 06:57:37 PM 831 Views
And yet the Supreme Court didn't stop it. You're a lawyer right? Dark Knight - 22/09/2011 04:19:05 PM 853 Views
Well, that right there was an ignorant thing to say. Dannymac - 22/09/2011 04:32:49 PM 919 Views
But they get all the media attention Dark Knight - 22/09/2011 04:45:03 PM 796 Views
Er. Nate - 22/09/2011 05:09:44 PM 810 Views
What about the t-shirts? *NM* Dark Knight - 22/09/2011 05:47:49 PM 331 Views
Heh... you should perhaps Google 'The West Memphis 3' Jacob - 22/09/2011 05:29:06 PM 875 Views
Cameron Todd Willingham is white, and his story is a national one since Perry is running for Pres Roland00 - 23/09/2011 03:41:52 PM 666 Views
those numbers are less schocking when you consider that blacks commet a lot more murders *NM* random thoughts - 22/09/2011 05:43:51 PM 343 Views
And this is a typically illogical argument. Cannoli - 22/09/2011 11:11:48 PM 835 Views
You're kidding, right? Dannymac - 23/09/2011 02:55:44 PM 782 Views
Re: You're kidding, right? ßelals Girl - 23/09/2011 07:36:38 PM 800 Views
Juror bias. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/09/2011 08:35:10 PM 314 Views
the jury was majority black *NM* random thoughts - 23/09/2011 09:03:48 PM 325 Views
In this instance, yes. *NM* Ghavrel - 23/09/2011 09:30:10 PM 281 Views
Your evidence for that? *NM* ßelals Girl - 23/09/2011 11:33:58 PM 320 Views
Twenty-one years of life in the American South. Ghavrel - 24/09/2011 12:40:10 AM 756 Views
Of course I'm interested ßelals Girl - 24/09/2011 04:03:51 AM 699 Views
From me being too involved with the subject material. I apologize. Ghavrel - 24/09/2011 11:16:06 AM 673 Views
No worries ßelals Girl - 24/09/2011 07:10:40 PM 667 Views
While I largely agree with your argument, I agree more with Cannoli on the NAACP. Joel - 23/09/2011 07:46:06 PM 738 Views
Wow ßelals Girl - 23/09/2011 07:50:06 PM 644 Views
It happens. Joel - 25/09/2011 03:09:00 PM 693 Views
yes the "you born white what more do you want" argument *NM* random thoughts - 23/09/2011 09:03:04 PM 313 Views
From what I've read it is pretty disturbing snoopcester - 22/09/2011 04:27:44 PM 865 Views
Huh. Nate - 22/09/2011 04:47:20 PM 860 Views
That jumped out at me too. Sareitha Sedai - 22/09/2011 04:50:52 PM 783 Views
What really confuses me Dark Knight - 22/09/2011 04:58:32 PM 737 Views
That's a good question and I really wish it would be addressed. Sareitha Sedai - 22/09/2011 05:05:40 PM 817 Views
Re: That's a good question and I really wish it would be addressed. Macharius - 22/09/2011 05:21:59 PM 876 Views
If the original trial is shown to be flawed that's supposed to require a new trial. Joel - 22/09/2011 08:25:51 PM 717 Views
Well... Jacob - 22/09/2011 05:18:54 PM 893 Views
So if I understand you correctly... LadyLorraine - 22/09/2011 05:23:00 PM 830 Views
Yes, that is correct. And proving witness coercion is likely to be difficult if not impossible. *NM* Macharius - 22/09/2011 05:30:37 PM 289 Views
almost random thoughts - 22/09/2011 08:25:06 PM 734 Views
Re: Well... Macharius - 22/09/2011 05:29:03 PM 790 Views
I know one reason is that MightyYT - 22/09/2011 08:27:41 PM 790 Views
it is only confusing because the evidence isn't really that shaky random thoughts - 22/09/2011 08:54:21 PM 783 Views
you are innocent until proven guilty random thoughts - 22/09/2011 05:34:57 PM 811 Views
You must change your perspective..... Jeordam - 22/09/2011 07:33:20 PM 787 Views
Well said *NM* Dark Knight - 22/09/2011 08:49:56 PM 347 Views
If I understand the Supreme Court correctly, the reason they denied the stay of execution was MightyYT - 22/09/2011 08:25:14 PM 815 Views
On its face, that is a good reason. Joel - 22/09/2011 10:07:44 PM 836 Views
I completely support the Death Penalty without question..... trzaska2000 - 22/09/2011 08:27:54 PM 717 Views
Unreasonable doubt is impossible to eliminate. Joel - 22/09/2011 09:54:43 PM 798 Views
Doubt can be eliminated.....any question about Dalmer? trzaska2000 - 23/09/2011 01:00:52 PM 847 Views
Maybe he was framed by an enemy, government conspiracy or aliens. Joel - 23/09/2011 01:54:21 PM 734 Views
Jigga what? *NM* trzaska2000 - 23/09/2011 03:36:07 PM 419 Views
"I do not know if I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly or am now a butterfly..." Joel - 23/09/2011 06:50:34 PM 719 Views
Circumstantial evidence is not, I believe, a bar to conviction. Joel - 22/09/2011 09:43:56 PM 690 Views
Regarding the salvation thing, that is an argument FOR the death penalty, in my mind. Cannoli - 22/09/2011 11:37:16 PM 764 Views
That motive is seflish and thus fatal. Joel - 23/09/2011 01:17:00 AM 694 Views
Bullshit Cannoli - 25/09/2011 03:53:05 AM 932 Views
Where do YOU get the idea that imperfect contrition is good enough? Joel - 25/09/2011 02:29:18 PM 1208 Views
Thank God you're not an evangelist. Dannymac - 23/09/2011 02:59:06 PM 733 Views
And I pity the souls you have ministered to. They're in for a rude shock at their judgement Cannoli - 25/09/2011 04:01:05 AM 721 Views
lol roman catholicism *NM* Ghavrel - 25/09/2011 04:39:55 AM 293 Views
Not just Roman Catholics, y'know, everyone who thinks God was not BSing about judgement. Joel - 25/09/2011 09:47:12 PM 782 Views
lol hellfire and brimstone *NM* Ghavrel - 26/09/2011 12:12:28 AM 290 Views
I suppose in a consequences free world everything is a source of amusement. Joel - 26/09/2011 12:33:14 AM 919 Views
You really don't understand irony, do you? Particularly as it applies to your post about this case. Cannoli - 22/09/2011 11:26:49 PM 815 Views
. Two Wongs - 23/09/2011 08:21:38 AM 760 Views
A list of anecdotal wrongs does not prove anything. If convictions can be wrong, so can exonerations *NM* Cannoli - 25/09/2011 04:03:26 AM 293 Views
Yes; it's the uncertainties that count. Either way. Two Wongs - 25/09/2011 04:15:48 AM 584 Views
sorry if i don't have time to link to every thing i've read on the subject moondog - 23/09/2011 02:54:50 PM 880 Views
Well I would think you would have picked an article that offers some iota of proof of his innocence. Cannoli - 25/09/2011 04:14:45 AM 806 Views
I kind of agree. Vivien - 24/09/2011 12:05:27 AM 790 Views
Well, I wouldn't call eyewitness accounts circumstancial evidence. Vivien - 23/09/2011 11:45:48 PM 742 Views
Eyewitness testimony is incredibly unreliable. *NM* Ghavrel - 24/09/2011 12:39:51 AM 289 Views
Nor would I, but I've heard that lawyers say, "an eye witness is the worst witness you can have." Joel - 25/09/2011 03:23:53 PM 739 Views
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