Active Users:201 Time:20/05/2024 04:21:35 AM
It doesn't, really. The issue gets politicized due to a long memory of "Jim Crow". Tom Send a noteboard - 15/01/2012 06:19:37 PM
To massively generalize, in America today Republicans are mostly conservatives, and conservatives find their base in the rural populations and split the suburbs with Democrats because people in the middle class under pressure will tend to revert to conservative values. Democrats are mostly liberals, and liberals find their base in urban populations and that portion of the suburbs which feels confident enough to be able to pay to support government programs.

The reason I just massively generalized is because in modern voting cycles, voter fraud manifested in the form of ballot-box stuffing is most easily conducted in urban areas by individuals with poor or no ID credentials - the homeless, the indigent, and other people who are transient for one reason or another (e.g., students). These people tend to vote Democratic.

As a result, any attempt to force ID cards is opposed by Democrats, who see in such attempts a manifestation of a historic conservative form of voter fraud, namely, denial of voting rights. Of course, this was historically conducted by white Democrats, but at the time conservatives in the South were Democrats because it was the Republicans who "invaded" under Lincoln. The Jim Crow laws were part and parcel of a wider social scheme to keep blacks disenfranchised, outside of political and socioeconomic power structures and marginalized in society generally.

Democrats like to play down the risk of voter fraud, but groups investigating the 2008 election (and even more so, the 2008 Democratic primary) have uncovered evidence of massive voter fraud in the form of ballot-box stuffing. Whether the evidence is merely the "tip of the iceberg" as Republicans claim or an "exaggeration" as Democrats claim, is an argument that can go on for years.

However, my personal opinion is that ballot-box stuffing is a significant and serious risk, and there are enough "get out the vote" and "voter registration" type organizations out there that can help ensure that everyone gets an ID card. It is easy enough to implement and maintain, and not an unbearable burden. It increases faith in the electoral system and that is a good thing. It decreases the ability of people to delegitimize an election on the grounds that "the dead voted", or that officials cast ballots for people on voter lists who didn't show up.

Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
This message last edited by Tom on 15/01/2012 at 06:22:03 PM
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How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? - 15/01/2012 05:14:16 PM 1745 Views
I certainly don't know. *NM* - 15/01/2012 05:32:42 PM 460 Views
From what I understand ... - 15/01/2012 05:34:39 PM 869 Views
but you need a photo ID for so many other things - 15/01/2012 05:42:06 PM 758 Views
Well. - 15/01/2012 05:53:04 PM 905 Views
your last bit is a good point *NM* - 15/01/2012 06:07:17 PM 493 Views
The SCOTUS disagrees with you. - 16/01/2012 03:14:57 AM 720 Views
I didn't even need to show a voter regestration card last time I voted *NM* - 16/01/2012 11:45:23 PM 598 Views
That is kind of pathetic. - 17/01/2012 06:45:19 AM 674 Views
you are not taking my amazing good looks into account - 17/01/2012 11:22:16 AM 620 Views
I cannot speak to that. - 17/01/2012 04:11:53 PM 782 Views
It "disenfranchises" whoever only barely brings him- or herself to vote as it is. - 15/01/2012 05:34:50 PM 761 Views
That really only reinforces the idea to me that this is just people looking to fight about something *NM* - 15/01/2012 05:45:37 PM 444 Views
Did you read your own article? - 15/01/2012 05:48:21 PM 812 Views
but out of that 200,000, how many would go get an ID? - 15/01/2012 06:08:44 PM 773 Views
I think that's an exaggeration, but to play devil's advocate... - 15/01/2012 05:41:10 PM 689 Views
it doesn't strike me as a very big layer to add. *NM* - 15/01/2012 05:43:37 PM 445 Views
Someone presents a poll worker a non-DL photo ID. - 15/01/2012 05:48:50 PM 765 Views
It doesn't, really. The issue gets politicized due to a long memory of "Jim Crow". - 15/01/2012 06:19:37 PM 852 Views
This is a remarkably calm and reasonable political discussion. What's going on? *NM* - 15/01/2012 08:05:30 PM 472 Views
I'm magical? *NM* - 15/01/2012 08:59:33 PM 547 Views
It is not a black and white issue - 16/01/2012 01:07:14 AM 785 Views
I prefer to think i'm magical. *NM* - 16/01/2012 01:20:49 AM 454 Views
I don't see any cat nearby, thus no magic was used *nods* *NM* - 16/01/2012 01:28:50 AM 485 Views
that's too obvious. - 16/01/2012 02:48:29 AM 757 Views
You did not just compare a cat to a rabbit - 16/01/2012 03:07:49 AM 771 Views
have you ever had a rabbit? - 16/01/2012 03:25:26 AM 810 Views
A cat would never lower itself assumming the form of a fluffy rabbit - 16/01/2012 12:49:26 PM 823 Views
that's just what they want you to think. - 16/01/2012 02:34:48 PM 697 Views
Viscous does not mean Magical - 16/01/2012 02:45:10 PM 897 Views
Not that I care much either way, but please, answer this: - 15/01/2012 09:26:23 PM 782 Views
definitely not. However, ID cards are free in South Carolina. - 15/01/2012 09:33:06 PM 881 Views
You could walk. *NM* - 16/01/2012 06:31:58 AM 454 Views
Oh I could, theoretically. Although this year, my poll is a good 7 miles away - 16/01/2012 08:45:42 AM 911 Views
7 miles away, isn't that illegal? *NM* - 16/01/2012 05:35:50 PM 454 Views
probably, but not really at the same time. It's my own fault regardless. - 16/01/2012 10:46:06 PM 817 Views
Illegal? My polling location is > 7 miles from my permanent residence. - 17/01/2012 12:19:21 AM 751 Views
I really have no idea what the rules are. *NM* - 17/01/2012 03:02:04 PM 462 Views
Every state has its own rules - 17/01/2012 03:54:43 PM 803 Views
No, and there's is no place in the US that is the case - 16/01/2012 12:11:36 AM 803 Views
Short answer: Yes. (Let me know if you want the long answer.) *NM* - 16/01/2012 07:52:36 PM 560 Views
that would be interesting. *NM* - 16/01/2012 08:45:24 PM 468 Views
I don't see how it does - 15/01/2012 10:22:29 PM 830 Views
Re: I don't see how it does - 15/01/2012 10:57:20 PM 768 Views
I believe most states also offer a non-drivers ID issued by the DMV - 16/01/2012 12:12:09 AM 719 Views
Also passports work too in most places. *NM* - 16/01/2012 06:59:51 PM 489 Views
those are far far from economical or practical compared to state IDs *NM* - 16/01/2012 07:12:30 PM 360 Views
Non-driver IDs, as said above - 16/01/2012 11:55:55 PM 790 Views
they don't cost in all states. They are free in SC *NM* - 17/01/2012 12:00:14 AM 472 Views
It is a catch 22 situation, the free id is not a perfect solution - 16/01/2012 12:53:11 AM 826 Views
That problem is significant, but far bigger than voting. - 16/01/2012 02:53:13 AM 791 Views
Also you can't claim voter fraud is a big problem - 16/01/2012 12:57:18 AM 757 Views
can you prove that voter fraud is not a problem? - 16/01/2012 02:04:52 AM 721 Views
In 5 years of investigation, 120 people were charged national with voter fraud, 86 were convincted - 16/01/2012 02:33:07 AM 942 Views
That's smoke and mirrors - 16/01/2012 01:51:34 PM 839 Views
It seems you didn't read the article, or understand its point - 16/01/2012 02:39:39 PM 767 Views
I suspect I know a good deal more of this subject than the author of your 5-year old article - 16/01/2012 05:37:54 PM 769 Views
Question for you - 16/01/2012 06:01:09 PM 812 Views
I'd prefer photo-ID only but I don't see too great a need. - 16/01/2012 06:37:13 PM 952 Views
I tend to agree - 16/01/2012 06:50:43 PM 711 Views
I'd definitely encourage absentee voting - 16/01/2012 07:14:02 PM 799 Views
I am required to produce a state ID to vote. - 16/01/2012 02:21:27 PM 831 Views
Re: How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? - 16/01/2012 02:42:28 PM 747 Views
Keep wearing that tinfoil hat. *NM* - 16/01/2012 03:09:56 PM 473 Views
I'm not reading the article but... - 17/01/2012 09:48:27 AM 749 Views
maybe there's no excuse in your area - 17/01/2012 03:05:53 PM 684 Views
I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. - 18/01/2012 07:26:10 PM 683 Views
that pretty much sums up my thoughts no it - 18/01/2012 08:57:41 PM 716 Views
Re: I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. - 21/01/2012 02:44:56 AM 926 Views
Well, that's kind of what I meant. - 21/01/2012 02:15:30 PM 841 Views
Re: Well, that's kind of what I meant. - 28/01/2012 03:48:19 PM 1029 Views
Re: maybe there's no excuse in your area - 21/01/2012 02:39:12 AM 789 Views
What? I'm the only one who cares? - 18/01/2012 02:14:28 AM 901 Views
What? - 18/01/2012 03:57:10 PM 678 Views
What about those who don't have an id and have been voting fine before? - 18/01/2012 06:06:19 PM 896 Views
the problem with that last point is... - 18/01/2012 09:05:43 PM 751 Views
Yes. - 18/01/2012 09:32:25 PM 899 Views
Cry me a river. Honestly. - 20/01/2012 05:28:05 AM 666 Views
What's your real question? - 18/01/2012 05:07:30 PM 723 Views
Question mark notwithstanding, there was no question. - 18/01/2012 06:16:46 PM 811 Views
Be outraged. Be passionate. Be surprised. - 19/01/2012 05:42:37 PM 956 Views

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