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That's smoke and mirrors Isaac Send a noteboard - 16/01/2012 01:51:34 PM
Voter fraud of the variety prevented by solid ID standards is that sort of individual or small group fraud that is hard to investigate and prosecute, on the simple grounds that it isn't worth hundreds of hours to find half a dozen individual voters who voted fraudulently by voting twice in two precincts or similiar.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
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How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 05:14:16 PM 2073 Views
I certainly don't know. *NM* Palatine - 15/01/2012 05:32:42 PM 598 Views
From what I understand ... Nate - 15/01/2012 05:34:39 PM 1185 Views
but you need a photo ID for so many other things LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 05:42:06 PM 1062 Views
Well. Nate - 15/01/2012 05:53:04 PM 1204 Views
your last bit is a good point *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 06:07:17 PM 641 Views
The SCOTUS disagrees with you. Joel - 16/01/2012 03:14:57 AM 1032 Views
I didn't even need to show a voter regestration card last time I voted *NM* Ray - 16/01/2012 11:45:23 PM 741 Views
That is kind of pathetic. Joel - 17/01/2012 06:45:19 AM 967 Views
you are not taking my amazing good looks into account Ray - 17/01/2012 11:22:16 AM 898 Views
I cannot speak to that. Joel - 17/01/2012 04:11:53 PM 1095 Views
It "disenfranchises" whoever only barely brings him- or herself to vote as it is. Legolas - 15/01/2012 05:34:50 PM 1058 Views
That really only reinforces the idea to me that this is just people looking to fight about something *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 05:45:37 PM 578 Views
Did you read your own article? Legolas - 15/01/2012 05:48:21 PM 1113 Views
but out of that 200,000, how many would go get an ID? LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 06:08:44 PM 1069 Views
I think that's an exaggeration, but to play devil's advocate... Burr - 15/01/2012 05:41:10 PM 999 Views
it doesn't strike me as a very big layer to add. *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 05:43:37 PM 576 Views
Someone presents a poll worker a non-DL photo ID. Burr - 15/01/2012 05:48:50 PM 1071 Views
i suppose that would get complicated if you tried to make it nice and flexible. *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 06:09:13 PM 796 Views
It doesn't, really. The issue gets politicized due to a long memory of "Jim Crow". Tom - 15/01/2012 06:19:37 PM 1167 Views
Yah, my mom brought up Jim Crow laws. It's a fair point, at least in regards to the reaction LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 06:22:36 PM 1078 Views
This is a remarkably calm and reasonable political discussion. What's going on? *NM* Nate - 15/01/2012 08:05:30 PM 604 Views
I'm magical? *NM* LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 08:59:33 PM 663 Views
It is not a black and white issue Roland00 - 16/01/2012 01:07:14 AM 1082 Views
I prefer to think i'm magical. *NM* LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 01:20:49 AM 588 Views
I don't see any cat nearby, thus no magic was used *nods* *NM* Roland00 - 16/01/2012 01:28:50 AM 620 Views
that's too obvious. LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 02:48:29 AM 1061 Views
You did not just compare a cat to a rabbit Roland00 - 16/01/2012 03:07:49 AM 1070 Views
have you ever had a rabbit? LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 03:25:26 AM 1111 Views
A cat would never lower itself assumming the form of a fluffy rabbit Roland00 - 16/01/2012 12:49:26 PM 1160 Views
that's just what they want you to think. LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 02:34:48 PM 1000 Views
Viscous does not mean Magical Roland00 - 16/01/2012 02:45:10 PM 1193 Views
Actually i'm pretty sure my rabbits scratch me because they're furry bastards. *NM* LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 04:28:57 PM 598 Views
well for one thing she didn't start out by insulting people who disagree with her Ray - 16/01/2012 02:09:24 AM 1043 Views
Not that I care much either way, but please, answer this: jh - 15/01/2012 09:26:23 PM 1134 Views
definitely not. However, ID cards are free in South Carolina. LadyLorraine - 15/01/2012 09:33:06 PM 1210 Views
You could walk. *NM* jh - 16/01/2012 06:31:58 AM 583 Views
Oh I could, theoretically. Although this year, my poll is a good 7 miles away LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 08:45:42 AM 1219 Views
7 miles away, isn't that illegal? *NM* jh - 16/01/2012 05:35:50 PM 582 Views
probably, but not really at the same time. It's my own fault regardless. LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 10:46:06 PM 1119 Views
Illegal? My polling location is > 7 miles from my permanent residence. Sareitha Sedai - 17/01/2012 12:19:21 AM 1067 Views
I really have no idea what the rules are. *NM* LadyLorraine - 17/01/2012 03:02:04 PM 589 Views
Every state has its own rules Isaac - 17/01/2012 03:54:43 PM 1112 Views
No, and there's is no place in the US that is the case Isaac - 16/01/2012 12:11:36 AM 1126 Views
It disenfranchises the dead/illegal aliens/people who vote multiple times... MightyYT - 16/01/2012 02:01:47 AM 1144 Views
Short answer: Yes. (Let me know if you want the long answer.) *NM* Palatine - 16/01/2012 07:52:36 PM 697 Views
that would be interesting. *NM* jh - 16/01/2012 08:45:24 PM 609 Views
By that, I assume you want to know. (But probably not as interesting as you think.) Palatine - 17/01/2012 02:46:16 PM 1094 Views
I don't see how it does A Deathwatch Guard - 15/01/2012 10:22:29 PM 1128 Views
Re: I don't see how it does Nate - 15/01/2012 10:57:20 PM 1068 Views
I believe most states also offer a non-drivers ID issued by the DMV LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 12:12:09 AM 1018 Views
Cool. I wonder if Canada has those. I should check into that. *NM* Nate - 16/01/2012 12:35:39 AM 526 Views
Also passports work too in most places. *NM* MightyYT - 16/01/2012 06:59:51 PM 629 Views
those are far far from economical or practical compared to state IDs *NM* LadyLorraine - 16/01/2012 07:12:30 PM 493 Views
Non-driver IDs, as said above A Deathwatch Guard - 16/01/2012 11:55:55 PM 1101 Views
they don't cost in all states. They are free in SC *NM* LadyLorraine - 17/01/2012 12:00:14 AM 608 Views
It is a catch 22 situation, the free id is not a perfect solution Roland00 - 16/01/2012 12:53:11 AM 1185 Views
That problem is significant, but far bigger than voting. Joel - 16/01/2012 02:53:13 AM 1126 Views
Also you can't claim voter fraud is a big problem Roland00 - 16/01/2012 12:57:18 AM 1100 Views
can you prove that voter fraud is not a problem? Ray - 16/01/2012 02:04:52 AM 1026 Views
In 5 years of investigation, 120 people were charged national with voter fraud, 86 were convincted Roland00 - 16/01/2012 02:33:07 AM 1267 Views
That's smoke and mirrors Isaac - 16/01/2012 01:51:34 PM 1167 Views
It seems you didn't read the article, or understand its point Roland00 - 16/01/2012 02:39:39 PM 1078 Views
You are still ignoring the fact that it is almost impossible to catch people on the current system random thoughts - 16/01/2012 03:52:42 PM 1039 Views
I suspect I know a good deal more of this subject than the author of your 5-year old article Isaac - 16/01/2012 05:37:54 PM 1076 Views
Question for you Sareitha Sedai - 16/01/2012 06:01:09 PM 1128 Views
I'd prefer photo-ID only but I don't see too great a need. Isaac - 16/01/2012 06:37:13 PM 1264 Views
I tend to agree Sareitha Sedai - 16/01/2012 06:50:43 PM 1015 Views
I'd definitely encourage absentee voting Isaac - 16/01/2012 07:14:02 PM 1125 Views
becuase they would then be limited to voting once and all of ACRON's work would be wasted *NM* Ray - 16/01/2012 01:46:06 AM 690 Views
Not to mention it might stop some of those pesky dead people that keep showing up. Every Year. *NM* dart_board - 16/01/2012 02:44:42 PM 683 Views
Hey now. Zombies are people too, and deserve to have their opinions noted. *NM* Nate - 17/01/2012 10:23:15 PM 600 Views
I guess you havn't been watching the Walking Dead *NM* random thoughts - 18/01/2012 07:09:34 PM 611 Views
Nate's one of those Farmer Hershel types. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 18/01/2012 10:02:48 PM 620 Views
Just a guess but I don't think things will end well for the farmer *NM* random thoughts - 19/01/2012 07:09:45 PM 665 Views
If provided gratis, it does not; otherwise, it is a poll tax (illegal under federal law.) Joel - 16/01/2012 02:39:40 AM 994 Views
I am required to produce a state ID to vote. Amyrlin - 16/01/2012 02:21:27 PM 1113 Views
Re: How does requiring photo ID disenfranchise the black/minority community? dart_board - 16/01/2012 02:42:28 PM 1121 Views
Keep wearing that tinfoil hat. *NM* Amyrlin - 16/01/2012 03:09:56 PM 605 Views
I do think that fraud/raising barriers to vote need to be weighed against each other. Sareitha Sedai - 16/01/2012 06:20:23 PM 1068 Views
I remember the Bush/Gore Fiasco back in 2000, Florida and Democrats pissed off the overseas military MightyYT - 16/01/2012 06:56:39 PM 1064 Views
I'm not reading the article but... callandor1000 - 17/01/2012 09:48:27 AM 1048 Views
maybe there's no excuse in your area LadyLorraine - 17/01/2012 03:05:53 PM 1011 Views
I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. Sareitha Sedai - 18/01/2012 07:26:10 PM 996 Views
that pretty much sums up my thoughts no it LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 08:57:41 PM 1010 Views
Re: I think when you get to such extreme examples, the point often becomes moot. callandor1000 - 21/01/2012 02:44:56 AM 1234 Views
Well, that's kind of what I meant. Sareitha Sedai - 21/01/2012 02:15:30 PM 1153 Views
Re: Well, that's kind of what I meant. callandor1000 - 28/01/2012 03:48:19 PM 1348 Views
Re: maybe there's no excuse in your area callandor1000 - 21/01/2012 02:39:12 AM 1105 Views
What? I'm the only one who cares? Vivien - 18/01/2012 02:14:28 AM 1197 Views
Yes, just you, the rest of us have been discussing baseball this entire time *NM* Isaac - 18/01/2012 02:41:25 AM 605 Views
I'm the only one who cares with fervor in a non nuanced way ok? *NM* Vivien - 18/01/2012 03:07:07 AM 599 Views
imo, fervor has no place in political discussion LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 02:35:56 PM 1054 Views
And yet, it finds its way or it's not politics. Vivien - 18/01/2012 06:28:08 PM 1055 Views
That doesn't mean that's the best or most productive discussion manner LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 06:59:09 PM 1193 Views
Strong feelings on a topic don't have to translate to fervent discussion, all caps style. Vivien - 18/01/2012 08:50:45 PM 1136 Views
What? Amyrlin - 18/01/2012 03:57:10 PM 955 Views
What about those who don't have an id and have been voting fine before? Vivien - 18/01/2012 06:06:19 PM 1212 Views
the problem with that last point is... LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 09:05:43 PM 1051 Views
Yes. Vivien - 18/01/2012 09:32:25 PM 1236 Views
That example is a lot different to what I'm talking about though. LadyLorraine - 18/01/2012 10:51:21 PM 1085 Views
It's not that different and it's a concrete example of something that happened quite recently. Vivien - 18/01/2012 11:43:24 PM 1302 Views
but my point is that it wasn't the government making those calls LadyLorraine - 19/01/2012 12:09:17 AM 1017 Views
Cry me a river. Honestly. Amyrlin - 20/01/2012 05:28:05 AM 981 Views
What's your real question? Palatine - 18/01/2012 05:07:30 PM 1037 Views
Question mark notwithstanding, there was no question. Vivien - 18/01/2012 06:16:46 PM 1115 Views
Be outraged. Be passionate. Be surprised. Palatine - 19/01/2012 05:42:37 PM 1252 Views
I've had enough, looking forward to insulting everyone again in a couple months or so. Vivien - 19/01/2012 06:06:19 PM 1138 Views
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